Should I worry?

Mindy · Post by **Mindy** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:47 pm

I got another three zebras yesterday (well... I couldn't help it, they were there...) and they all seem to have found their places in the tank. Including one is now inhabiting a cave!

However, there is this one big one, female I believe, who lives under a piece of bogwood (having evicted the previous tenant!

) and her stripes don't appear to be as black as the others. All the others seem very dark black, while some of hers are that sort of lighter, greyish colour they get when they're stressed. She hasn't come out from under her bit of wood yet, well, not when I'm looking and I sat there in the dark for an hour tonight after feeding them just to see what they did!

There was a big chunk of our "recipe" food right next to her last night which was untouched this morning (so I removed it).

I was just wondering if I should be worrying about her. It's not so much the staying under the log, it's more the paler stripes. I am not sure if this is the same one, but one of the ones in the shop had a lot of white on it. It stood out from the others a little. So I guess natural variations in colour do occur... but... I just want to be sure as I'd hate to lose one, especially a big mature female like this.

I can't really get a picture of more than just her tail so it's hard for me to show you what I'm talking about. The stripes lower to the bottom seem the palest. She is wiggling her tail periodically though, and moving a bit. Just not out from under the log...

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:44 pm

She's only been with you a day, give her some time and I'm sure she'll settle in fine

Are the others doing good?

jerms55555 · Post by **jerms55555** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:53 pm

Awhile back I posted the same problem with a male of mine that stayed under the log for a couple of weeks and I noticed his stripes were becoming grey....so i pulled him out and put him in an already established 10 gal tank....within the next day he was a solid black again.....I don't know if it was because he wasn't eating or my water quality was bad but i took it as a bad sign, maybe someone here has a better opinion/solution.

Good Luck
Jerms

Adam · Post by **Adam** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:28 am

Give her a chance to settle in Mindy I'm sure she will be ok given time, just keep a close eye on her. If the others you got at the same time are doing ok then I wouldn't worry. With my own fish I noticed that some new purchases would colour up within hours whilst the odd one would take days to colour up. If things don't improve after a week you may want to consider jerms' solution but this would be the last resort, there had been no improvemet in his fish for a couple of weeks.

Hope all goes well.

Adam

Mindy · Post by **Mindy** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:07 am

Well, I sat by the tank again this morning watching with the lights off, and then turned them on to see who was who... the lady in question was definitely out from under the log having a little explore around the tank and her colours looked better. In fact, I even saw her explore the cave that the other one has occupied (he was elsewhere at the time) There was still quite a bit of uneaten food (tetra prima) from last night though. I'll clean that out when I get home from work.

Quite a few of the Zebras were active this morning when I first went in. It was nice to see them out and about. The most active of all, peeking in the most crevices, was the female. After a while when the light was on, she made her way back to the log.

I suppose I'll feel happier when I feel they're eating better, but I guess I'll just keep watching and hopefully things will settle soon.

fishboy20 · Post by **fishboy20** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 8:59 am

Give them some time, they will settle in for ya.

Adam · Post by **Adam** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:06 am

Mindy,

Sounds like your new additions are settling in just fine, including the female you were worried about. I know only too well how anxious you can get when settling in new zebras, been through it enough times. Sometimes you are almost expecting something to go wrong, I guess it comes of wanting to be a good zebra parent

.

Cascudo · Post by **Cascudo** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:22 am

I get the impression that "she" could be a male.

My male also has lighter stripes than the females. In fact I have seen somewhere on the internet that this is one of the characteristics of male zebra's.

Mindy · Post by **Mindy** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:24 am

Well he/she is a little whiskery, but going by body shape, is more bulky and "pear drop" shaped. Aren't the males more slender? The guy in the shop used to have 15 Zebras and was very confident that this is a female. I had to trust his judgement.

Hmmm... I can see I might need to take pictures.

Cascudo · Post by **Cascudo** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:57 pm

On the contrary, the males are broader and more pear drop shaped then the females. The females are slender.

Mindy · Post by **Mindy** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:15 pm

Oh good lord... I am so confused now. I bought three the other day, and 2 were meant to be females and 1 male. I wanted to avoid male overload so I didn't have too much fighting. It looks like I might end up with a tank full of testosterone! HELP!

What the guy in the shop was going on was that the females were generally fatter in the body, whereas the males tapered more towards the tails. Is this right? We looked at them all from above.

Adam · Post by **Adam** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:44 pm

Unfortunately going by body shape alone is not completey accurate as there are always exceptions to the rule.

Have a look at one of my males:

http://www.zebrapleco.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=307

Mindy · Post by **Mindy** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:51 pm

Right... I'm going to have to have a darn good look at them once again. I don't really want to take them out of the tank again though, not for a while, as they're only still recovering from the trauma of being moved the other day. That wouldn't be fair on the little guys/gals.

Going by the info I have been obsessively reading for the last 1/2 an hour (on work time

) I think I want to look at the bit between the pectoral and ventral fins, because it seems that the females generally are still fat up to their ventral fins and then start to taper, whereas the males start to taper after the pectoral fins. Even that picture of your big fat male (what a porker!

) he still tapers after his pectoral fins.

These ones I got at the weekend have visible cheek bristles and I noticed that one even has a bristlier pectoral fin (the front edge)... I can't see that yet on my two. I didn't realise how small they were until I put these adult ones in! Anyway, I'm fairly sure that this "female" of mine, does have bristles but they don't go past the cheek indentation. I'll have to have another look to be sure. <sigh>

Adam · Post by **Adam** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:47 pm

You're getting there, the difference in body shape you describe is correct. That is providing the fish in question is fairly well fed, if it's slim or young it's more difficult to tell. As you say odontode growth in females should not extend much beyond the gill opening, if it does it is more than likely a male. A good odontode growth on the leading ray of the pectoral fin is also a male trait. Then there is the shape of the fins to consider, more crescent shaped pectorals for females and straighter pectorals for males. There is also head shape to consider, more sloping for males and more blunt for females. Finally there is a difference in vent shape between the two sexes, more protruding in males and less so in females. However this would only really be noticable in mature adults that are in breeding condition.

This is what I look for when trying to establish the sex of a zebra. I think that it is best to look for a number of sexual differences instead of just one. As an example I have a female that has a good odontode growth on the leading ray of her pectoral fins. Other than that she displays all of the other female traits, she recently spent a day in a cave with one of the males which finally confirmed it for me.

Adam

Des · Post by **Des** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:49 pm

Hi Mindy,,

Dont panic.
If you can get some similar photos of the others just like the last one you posted we should be able to help you out !!!!!

If any tetra prima is left over in the morning from the night before, you might be over feeding. The only food I left in , for a max of 2 days was whole mussel, so that they could pick at it before it went off or fungused.

I use just 3 things when I sex zebras,preferably adult, and I have been right 100 % of the time when I bought stock for myself.
1)Look at a top view of the zebra
2)check out a side view of the cheek"whiskers"
3)check out a side view of the leading pectoral bristles.
I prefer not to look at shape of head, fins etc. Why make things more difficult or complicated, when it can actually be so simple.

Des.