Death by possible choking

Dr. P · Post by **Dr. P** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 12:30 pm

Hi guys.

Here are the pics of Titch a couple of hours after finding the wee fella dead in his tank. What do ya guys think? Could I be onto something with the choking suspicion?

Tom2600 · Post by **Tom2600** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:36 am

Hi Dr P,

Really crap news to hear about the death of Titch!!

Good pictures which really just show an apparently healthy looking young zebra. My only comment would be on the pink colouration to the body. Could this indicate an internal problem/infection? Other than that I am stumped. It could have choked but I doubt it. Maybe some food blocked its digestive system?

Regards

Tom

Cascudo · Post by **Cascudo** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:10 pm

I am sorry to hear about you dead fry!

I think it is very dificult to make a diagnosis, it is so small. In this stage they are just very sensitive, they die very easily.
Could it be possible that it died because of oxygen shortage? Please read my experience on this in my thread that I placed today.

Dr. P · Post by **Dr. P** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:04 pm

Hi guys.

Tom wrote:Maybe some food blocked its digestive system?

Definately a strong possibility. I guess we will never know for sure.

Cascudo wrote:Could it be possible that it died because of oxygen shortage? Please read my experience on this in my thread that I placed today.

Thats one reason that I am fairly confident in ruling out. The breeding trap I use has a spray bar attachment which is run from an external air pump. Also, for additional turn-over I had the out put of the eheim external filter aimed straight at the trap 'vents'. I actually had to strategically place an object (fake plant) inside the trap so the food had somewhere to settle instead of instantly being blown out of the trap due to the turnover. There was never any uneaten food wasting away...a couple of snails made sure of that.

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:24 pm

Titch looks like has a rather large chest... is that remnants from the egg yolk? I've never taken a photo that close up of any of my fry at that age, so I don't have anything to compare with really...

I do however remember thinking that he appeared to have the egg yolk rather high up on his body compared to mine, but that might be due individual variations?

Maybe he was born with something that wouldn't allow his system to work properly.. I have had fry die for no appareant reason, and thought it to be one just one of those that wasn't developing right.

It's so sad though, Titch was a little trooper

Dr. P · Post by **Dr. P** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:09 pm

Hey McEve. Would there still be signs of the egg sack 6 weeks after hatching?

His chest wasn't as big as that before he died. That was somthing that happened upon/after death. One of the reasons I am inclined to go with the choking/digestive problem.

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:15 pm

What organ is it that appear so large? It doesn't look like it could be the stomach itself, as that's the large round dark part on this picture:

It's not divided in two. Could it be the liver?

pandadosmares · Post by **pandadosmares** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 6:24 pm

Since they are very sensitive to some types of food, i question if it wasnt some type of obstipation
Does little wee guy defecate?

Dr. P · Post by **Dr. P** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:33 pm

McEve wrote:What organ is it that appear so large?

I have no idea

. I thought maybe someone here could help out with that.

The photo you posted look a lot different to what Titch looked like. What age was the fry in your pic? I thought Titch look 'normal' but now I am starting to worry. Was he underfed?

Hi Pandadosmares, I honestly can't remember if I had witnessed any fecal matter around the fry trap, with such a high turnover in the trap I doubt it would have had long to settle. It's not something that I had thought to look for as I watched him progress.....with hignsight its somthing I should have been monitoring.

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Wed Feb 23, 2005 7:44 pm

Dr. P wrote:
McEve wrote:What organ is it that appear so large?
I have no idea . I thought maybe someone here could help out with that.

I know, I'm just trying to aid the best I can, even though it's not much

Dr. P wrote: The photo you posted look a lot different to what Titch looked like. What age was the fry in your pic? I thought Titch look 'normal' but now I am starting to worry. Was he underfed?

No. The fry on the picture is bloated, full of water. But it helps identifying the internal organs. Don't pay attention to how large his belly appears though - that's not normal. But this fry was about the same age as Titch.

Dr. P wrote: with hignsight its somthing I should have been monitoring.

Hignsight is the only true science I think someone more clever than me said once

I truly belive there nothing you could have done to change Titch's fate.

INXS · Post by **INXS** » Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:24 pm

My condolences - it's never easy to loose a fish and especially one you have raised and grown attached to.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:16 pm

Hi Dr.P

Appologies for joining the post so late, and I'm sorry about the fry. It must be really gutting for you after six weeks of bringing him on.

As far as the organ goes, I am somewhat confused as to what it could be, my imediat thought were mucle tissue that has become slightly more visible without the blood flow.

If not, it is possible that the fish could have had some sort of physical deformity that has lead to it's demise.

As far as the yolk sac goes, I think it would be well and truely gone by now, and the back end of the fish seems to be stong enough to suggest it has been eating. I have found that if the young do not eat the first areas to waste are just before the vent.

I'll have a wee look in a couple of books and try and figure out what if there is a reason for the larger white area.

Rob

Dr. P · Post by **Dr. P** » Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:17 pm

Cheers guys. I appreciate all your help, suggestions and kind words.

Adam · Post by **Adam** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:01 pm

Very sorry to hear about the untimely death of Titch Dr P

.

I suspect that it may have been dietary related. Perhaps, this is just a wild guess here, some young zebras are more prone to this due to their gut being under developed. Similar to colic in young babies, obviously it's not fatal but it is down to the gut being under developed. My daughter suffered terribly with colic when she was a baby and had to be put on a special lighter feed where as my son was fine. Just thinking aloud here, maybe some conventional feeds are just too rich for a small minority of young zebras.