Jojoyojimbi wrote:personally if i were to receive free zebras under the stipulation that they're returned if unable to be bred by me within a certain time frame, i'd jump at a chance like that of course if i failed then the initial provider gets grown out adults, and i'd get some experience at least with them again
No you don't. You won't be able to return adults that can breed, as you've recieved fish that didn't develop right, or you didn't provide the enviroment necessary for them to develop right.
so you see, there's many factors coming into considertation here
Jojoyojimbi wrote:personally if i were to receive free zebras under the stipulation that they're returned if unable to be bred by me within a certain time frame, i'd jump at a chance like that of course if i failed then the initial provider gets grown out adults, and i'd get some experience at least with them again
No you don't. You won't be able to return adults that can breed, as you've recieved fish that didn't develop right, or you didn't provide the enviroment necessary for them to develop right.
so you see, there's many factors coming into considertation here
i think you misunderstood my stance, if it were me, giving zebs to a friend to breed, i'd give them say 2 and a half years or so, now if they didn't manage to coax a spawn out of them in that time, i'd have them back since if i'm providing fry i can obviously spawn them right?
i'm saying that if i were a recipient of such a 'functional gift' and couldn't get the spawn in time then i'd be returning grown out, breedable zebs
Jojoyojimbi wrote:
Put me down for your first batch of fry at $25 each and let me know when they're ready eddie
Sure, but it will be awhile, since I need to buy more (buying 1 every few months, since I'm on a budget). Then give time for my juvies time to grow. Unfortunately, my plans are...local pickup ONLY, 1 Zebra pleco per customer, and some kind of contract. The zebra I plan to sell are for those who have wanted them, but just think their too expensive, especially if the prices keep increasing. And some kind of contract stating that they are not to be sold to anyone else after a specific amount of time. Hopefully, this will deter people from taking advantage of me and buying zebs from me and selling them at a much higher price.
Well crazie.eddie,Im not to far from you being in Va.It would be worth the drive to come up and personally pick up the zebs.I dont think anybody is expecting someone to hand over zebs for free.If someone paying large sums of money to someone so you dont think that they "have extreme issues of entitlement." then so be it.I hope to be part of the solution,not make it difficult for others.I am just hoping for the opportunity to breed the zebs.I have a 7 and a 5 year old who I share my fish keeping responsibilities with and they love it.I think they are just as excited about the zebs as I.Sorry if I come across the wrong way,but this is how I feel.Confident?Yes!
the only thing that could make me sell zebras would be circumstances that would most likely require a complete liquidation of my aquariums and fish... even then i'd probably try and find a way to save my plecos
Jojoyojimbi wrote:the only thing that could make me sell zebras would be circumstances that would most likely require a complete liquidation of my aquariums and fish... even then i'd probably try and find a way to save my plecos
As Im finding out,I agree with you.The dedication people have for thier zebs is outstanding.Did I see that you were in the marines?I was an EOD tech. in the navy.(Navy Diver,Explosive Ordnance Disposal)
Yeah, i was a CPL in the 8th ESB, a combat engineer, i don't have any zebs currently but i wouldn't give up any of my others without a fight, not even my uncommon commons
Well when I get to where Im breeding zebs Ill make sure to keep you in mind.Im looking at building some caves acording to LyreTails specifications.Do they have to be slate?
crazie.eddie wrote:
It will no longer be a hobby but a choice whether to feed your children or increase the population of the zebra.
Oh please, lets keep this within the right perspective.
crazie.eddie wrote:
Keeping fish, we know it's an expensive hobby, even more for saltwater/marine tanks.
Like you do here. Zebras are expensive. Blue eyed panaques are even more expensive. Koi are sometimes the most expensive. But like you say, what does it cost to keep a freshwater tank compared to a salt water tank.
It's all about supply and demand, no matter what kind of commodity we're talking about. Yes, this community is for spreading the Zebra to all that wants to keep them - breed them. But quite frankly, I don't think you'll find a breeder that will give them to you, simply because it costs a lot of money to breed a fish that is adult when it's 3 years old, and only give a max of 20 fry at the time.
What if we turn the whole discussion around, and say, what's it worth to you to get a breeding colonyof Zebs? Do you love this fish enough to pay what the actual cost for the breeder was? Do you expect the breeder to give this fish to you for you $20, so that you can sell it for $200 next week?
What excactly do you expext from the serious breeders of this fish? The ones that wont send you a snubnose, the ones that take pride in what kind of fish they let go?
Now that I have had time to think on it,that raises a valid question.How do I find a breeder who takes pride in the quality of fish they sell?This is where I was hoping to be able to use your experience to guide me,point me the direction if you will.
rhino wrote:
Now that I have had time to think on it,that raises a valid question.How do I find a breeder who takes pride in the quality of fish they sell?This is where I was hoping to be able to use your experience to guide me,point me the direction if you will.
Basically, word of mouth or if you know the breeder personaly. A few people can probably vouch for other people selling zebras through mail. Fortunately for me, I know of a few local breeders, who I can often visit and actually select the zebras from.
These threads tick me off, to be honest. This is like the third one we've had get totally out of control. Economics is a pure and simple concept. If there really WERE so many zebras being bred and raised to a sellable age out there, people wouldn't be so desperate for them that they'd pay high prices. Period. It's getting to be something that's done more and more often, but the prices are still going UP, not down. That means that by definition, demand is also still rising faster than they are being produced. Speculating that it's the opposite when the pricing trend shows quite obviously it isn't doesn't make it true. Wishful thinking and what not.
I've sold zebras cheap, given a few away, and carefully picked and chosen who I sold them to. More than half of the people no longer have them. One decided to sell them and get out of fw fish, one killed them all, and one killed a good portion, got disgusted, bought adults and is going to sell the remaining fry. This is all with me carefully choosing where they go, not just selling them to the highest bidder (which I'd have been totally within my rights to do, mind you).
My main colony has been on a one and a half year hiatus at this point. I've had spawns in the subdominant tank, even after moving the dominant male into the subdominant tank, but nothing in the main colony at all. They're about to get a serious shakeup and the addition of a few juveniles I'd saved back, but this is FAR from a fortune making procedure for me. I've killed dozens, literally. 10 at one fell swoop with the bloodworm incident comes to mind. There's a steep learning curve with these fish. Small spawns and the length of time between them makes it much less of an economic windfall than I keep hearing it should be.
I have a waiting list for my fry. I give preference to people that can come pick them up. They go to the head of the list. I do that because I get to meet them that way and impress upon them what a serious responsibility they're undertaking. I haven't had to worry about shipping any in more than a year, and THOSE I'd raised out for 8 months before I'd consider shipping, just to make sure they were old enough to handle it well. I can raise Ancistrus to shipping size in 3 months. That's a BIG difference in the investment of space and time to get them ready to go anywhere at all, not to mention any losses are mine to absorb that way.
No matter how much I do in the zebras best interest, there are still people that come along bashing everyone for not selling them for as cheap as they want them to be. They are expensive. They are hard to breed. They are hard to obtain. It's how it is. Get over it. Be patient, learn as much as you can about them, and show that you're making a serious commitment to their future. Those things will make people that DO have them much more apt to want to help you out than all the bashing in the world. Keep in mind, you're trying to convince people that you need something from to do something nice for you by being nasty about it. Try honey.
Barbie wrote:These threads tick me off, to be honest. This is like the third one we've had get totally out of control. Economics is a pure and simple concept. If there really WERE so many zebras being bred and raised to a sellable age out there, people wouldn't be so desperate for them that they'd pay high prices. Period. It's getting to be something that's done more and more often, but the prices are still going UP, not down. That means that by definition, demand is also still rising faster than they are being produced. Speculating that it's the opposite when the pricing trend shows quite obviously it isn't doesn't make it true. Wishful thinking and what not.
I've sold zebras cheap, given a few away, and carefully picked and chosen who I sold them to. More than half of the people no longer have them. One decided to sell them and get out of fw fish, one killed them all, and one killed a good portion, got disgusted, bought adults and is going to sell the remaining fry. This is all with me carefully choosing where they go, not just selling them to the highest bidder (which I'd have been totally within my rights to do, mind you).
My main colony has been on a one and a half year hiatus at this point. I've had spawns in the subdominant tank, even after moving the dominant male into the subdominant tank, but nothing in the main colony at all. They're about to get a serious shakeup and the addition of a few juveniles I'd saved back, but this is FAR from a fortune making procedure for me. I've killed dozens, literally. 10 at one fell swoop with the bloodworm incident comes to mind. There's a steep learning curve with these fish. Small spawns and the length of time between them makes it much less of an economic windfall than I keep hearing it should be.
I have a waiting list for my fry. I give preference to people that can come pick them up. They go to the head of the list. I do that because I get to meet them that way and impress upon them what a serious responsibility they're undertaking. I haven't had to worry about shipping any in more than a year, and THOSE I'd raised out for 8 months before I'd consider shipping, just to make sure they were old enough to handle it well. I can raise Ancistrus to shipping size in 3 months. That's a BIG difference in the investment of space and time to get them ready to go anywhere at all, not to mention any losses are mine to absorb that way.
No matter how much I do in the zebras best interest, there are still people that come along bashing everyone for not selling them for as cheap as they want them to be. They are expensive. They are hard to breed. They are hard to obtain. It's how it is. Get over it. Be patient, learn as much as you can about them, and show that you're making a serious commitment to their future. Those things will make people that DO have them much more apt to want to help you out than all the bashing in the world. Keep in mind, you're trying to convince people that you need something from to do something nice for you by being nasty about it. Try honey.
Barbie
WOW!You know,I dont know how to take that.Please dont take this the wrong way Barbie.Your statement about economics being pure and simple....I went through Desert Storm(kill or be killed).You tell me that war had nothing to do with economics?I think not!Anyways,Im here because I see an oppertunity to make a difference in something and to teach my children to stand up and make a difference also.I think most of us here have the same goal.I know its not going to be easy for me here, but I will try to do my best.What more can you ask?
Bobby war has absolutely nothing to do with the economics of the zebra pleco, No. The economy of the US? Yep, but not a damned thing to do with zebras. I'm not picking on you or anyone else with my post, don't take it that way please. I'm saying that I'm danged tired of personally feeling run down by people that weren't interested in the fish prior to the ban when prices were cheaper. Doodoo occurs. I didn't engineer this all happening somehow, and neither did anyone else I know that's currently raising zebras. It just happened that way. I personally think the market will eventually stabilize at a realistic level, it's just going to take a while until supply can meet demand.
As to equating your service for our country with anything to do with the discussion, you're sorely mistaken. I'm probably one of the most pro US people you'll ever talk to and I've gone well out of my way to be supportive of the wonderful people that are serving or have served our country. It just has nothing to do with the discussion in this thread, IMO.
