I'm not sure.
There have been debates about Wild Caught, F1, F2, F3 etc.
Even rumours about a reintroduction programme which is very secretive, why? Because people may want to contribute fish, somebody suggested the person organising this was in Hertfordshire, anybody else heard about this and any chance of an update if they have.
The way forward is with F1's and F2's in my mind as my wild caught and other peoples wild caught are not going to last forever.
Is there anybody out there or on this site, who is rotating wild males and females, or individual F1's from different sources to create different lines?
If so could you let me know what your approach is, I have ideas but all thoughts are welcome.
There have also been many discussions on here about breeding numbers of fish is more important at this time, and also about there is no need to worry about the fish in captivity, well there are plenty.
Breeding numbers satisfies demand, but does this actually benefit the fish?
There are some serious issues about maintaining a good quality captive population, and if things are in place at the moment it is very secretive.
All thoughts welcome.
Dave
Where are we going?
-
madmoroccan
- Obsessed!!
- Posts: 323
- Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:21 pm
- Location: Hertfordshire, UK
I don't mean to burst your bubble mate but people who are showing interest in the species at the moment only care about getting some fish. All the rest are getting on with their lives, and everybody else has lost interest.
As for the Hertfordshire mastermind, I deny everything! LOL
As for the Hertfordshire mastermind, I deny everything! LOL
[img]http://www.geocities.com/madmoroccan/zebcam.jpg[/img]
-
madmoroccan
- Obsessed!!
- Posts: 323
- Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:21 pm
- Location: Hertfordshire, UK
And I have all the optimism in the world... In truth there isn't much "evidently" going on.
And if wanted to be negative I would have said a lot worse and left jokes to the side.
I don't need to be ruled by my peer group either... You're not setting a good example if you're going to give me a dressing down because I expressed my opinion are you?
True?
And if wanted to be negative I would have said a lot worse and left jokes to the side.
I don't need to be ruled by my peer group either... You're not setting a good example if you're going to give me a dressing down because I expressed my opinion are you?
True?
[img]http://www.geocities.com/madmoroccan/zebcam.jpg[/img]
-
madmoroccan
- Obsessed!!
- Posts: 323
- Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:21 pm
- Location: Hertfordshire, UK
Hi
Well there is significant interest out there, if people are stating there isn't and only want to obtain some, they are mixing in the wrong circles.
And also if things are going on in the UK, so be it. If it is by people on this site, please enlighten us. I'm sure all UK members would love to know.
If not why not.
Dave
And also if things are going on in the UK, so be it. If it is by people on this site, please enlighten us. I'm sure all UK members would love to know.
If not why not.
Dave
Hi Guys, this will just be a quick one, but there are things going on.
For the past 2 years I have been in discussions about a possible project, which has taken up a great deal of time and effort from not only myself , but other parties involved.
I must admit however that due to work commitments and my new family, progress on the project has grinded almost to a hault.
As I have mentioned previously I am not willing to discus the project until I know it is something that will go ahead. That way the site does not get involved in something that is not successful.
As for optimism, I agree with McEve, we should try and keep the forum positive. I agree with active discussions but we should refrain from "calling down" the general zebra keeping population.
Madmorocan, I commend your enthusiasm and obvious passion, but please try and see some good in why the site is here and why it has members.
Yes, it has been slow over recent months, for reasons I stated above, but this does not change the purpose of the site, or why most people join up.
As somebody that has bred zebras, I can certainly think of easier ways to make money, that takes less time, and a great deal less effort.
I agree with Dave that at this point in time the best way to save the Zebra population (and primarily why the site is here) is breeding in captivity.
When I started the site I had heard of only a handful of people breeding these fish, and there was very little known of the triggers. We can now , quite confidently say that there is a good increasing captive population, the price is falling, and you don't need to pee in the water to make them spawn.
I am definitely interested however to hear about anyone else's view on this. It may take a little time for me to respond, but I will be back!
Have fun!
For the past 2 years I have been in discussions about a possible project, which has taken up a great deal of time and effort from not only myself , but other parties involved.
I must admit however that due to work commitments and my new family, progress on the project has grinded almost to a hault.
As I have mentioned previously I am not willing to discus the project until I know it is something that will go ahead. That way the site does not get involved in something that is not successful.
As for optimism, I agree with McEve, we should try and keep the forum positive. I agree with active discussions but we should refrain from "calling down" the general zebra keeping population.
Madmorocan, I commend your enthusiasm and obvious passion, but please try and see some good in why the site is here and why it has members.
Yes, it has been slow over recent months, for reasons I stated above, but this does not change the purpose of the site, or why most people join up.
As somebody that has bred zebras, I can certainly think of easier ways to make money, that takes less time, and a great deal less effort.
I agree with Dave that at this point in time the best way to save the Zebra population (and primarily why the site is here) is breeding in captivity.
When I started the site I had heard of only a handful of people breeding these fish, and there was very little known of the triggers. We can now , quite confidently say that there is a good increasing captive population, the price is falling, and you don't need to pee in the water to make them spawn.
I am definitely interested however to hear about anyone else's view on this. It may take a little time for me to respond, but I will be back!
Have fun!
The perfect white lie..."Of course I didn't pay that much for the fish honey"
Hi
Thanks for the lengthy reply Rob, and no way meant as a criticism of your good self, as we can all see and appreciate the effort you have put into starting and developing this site and your dedication to the Zebra cause.
I do not understand the reasoning for not divulging the project, if it fails so what, at least you've tried. It's difficult to envisage circumstances where divulging plans to save a fish may jeopardise the project.
Now I'm going going to make a few guesses here.
1. Conservation in Zoos, well this doesn't take that much time and effort as I've started it.
2. An exchange programme, well if you led the way, it would go ahead, don't think there is anybody with more credibility than you on this site.
3. Re-introduction, can imagine this would take a lot of time and effort, but at the present time there are reports of illegally exported fish from various parts of the world, and we might end up with some very well travelled fish.
4. A charity devoted to Zebras, now this involves a lot of time and effort and is also long term.
Now 1 to 3 have been discussed in various threads, having both support and criticism, opinions are different on how best to preserve the Zebra.
While genetic viability of captive zebras is not yet an issue, I don't think it is long before the majority of Zebras in captivity are inbred.
As you said in your post, it might fail, is there a plan B.
Does the project if successful require support of members of this site?
There are a number of people who have Zebras who think this site to be elitist, there have been posts expressing the same.
I can only say not being prepared to divulge the project will only fuel this opinion.
Dave
I do not understand the reasoning for not divulging the project, if it fails so what, at least you've tried. It's difficult to envisage circumstances where divulging plans to save a fish may jeopardise the project.
Now I'm going going to make a few guesses here.
1. Conservation in Zoos, well this doesn't take that much time and effort as I've started it.
2. An exchange programme, well if you led the way, it would go ahead, don't think there is anybody with more credibility than you on this site.
3. Re-introduction, can imagine this would take a lot of time and effort, but at the present time there are reports of illegally exported fish from various parts of the world, and we might end up with some very well travelled fish.
4. A charity devoted to Zebras, now this involves a lot of time and effort and is also long term.
Now 1 to 3 have been discussed in various threads, having both support and criticism, opinions are different on how best to preserve the Zebra.
While genetic viability of captive zebras is not yet an issue, I don't think it is long before the majority of Zebras in captivity are inbred.
As you said in your post, it might fail, is there a plan B.
Does the project if successful require support of members of this site?
There are a number of people who have Zebras who think this site to be elitist, there have been posts expressing the same.
I can only say not being prepared to divulge the project will only fuel this opinion.
Dave
Hi Dave
The people I have been involved with have expressly asked that I do not release any information. The reasoning behind this, I feel is justified. The project is not mine, and is therefore not something I can make public, it is something I have been asked to contribute to that could in the long term involve both ZP and it's members.
As for the site being elitist, I sincerely hope it is not generally viewed as that. As the site expands it will never be possible to satisfy everyone's requirements and meet everyone's expectations. It will also become more and more difficult to keep the site as an informative resource due to the fact that "Politics will interlude".
I can however promise that the sole purpose of this site will continue to be to progress the captive breeding of hypancistrus zebra and preserve, where possible true strains in captivity.
What I can say, is that there are plans afoot to introduce a new database that will enable each individual member to create their own stats page, logging their water and if applicable, breeding parameters. These will then be made available to assist everyone in identifying key triggers and prefer ed conditions.
The people I have been involved with have expressly asked that I do not release any information. The reasoning behind this, I feel is justified. The project is not mine, and is therefore not something I can make public, it is something I have been asked to contribute to that could in the long term involve both ZP and it's members.
As for the site being elitist, I sincerely hope it is not generally viewed as that. As the site expands it will never be possible to satisfy everyone's requirements and meet everyone's expectations. It will also become more and more difficult to keep the site as an informative resource due to the fact that "Politics will interlude".
I can however promise that the sole purpose of this site will continue to be to progress the captive breeding of hypancistrus zebra and preserve, where possible true strains in captivity.
What I can say, is that there are plans afoot to introduce a new database that will enable each individual member to create their own stats page, logging their water and if applicable, breeding parameters. These will then be made available to assist everyone in identifying key triggers and prefer ed conditions.
The perfect white lie..."Of course I didn't pay that much for the fish honey"
Hi
Hi Rob
I appreciate it's not yours to divulge, better to be involved than not.
I as others will reserve judgement, and lets hope it leads to consolidation of the gene pool rather than the fragmentation that is going on at the moment.
I will continue donating different lines of fish to Chester Zoo until a better alternative comes up.
Dave
I appreciate it's not yours to divulge, better to be involved than not.
I as others will reserve judgement, and lets hope it leads to consolidation of the gene pool rather than the fragmentation that is going on at the moment.
I will continue donating different lines of fish to Chester Zoo until a better alternative comes up.
Dave
Hi
Hi Rob
Well not much of an article to write.
I donated 6 to add to their two, come the end of September I will be donating two more unrelated to the original 6, and this will go on for as long as they want them.
I asked for a bit of support on here, I didn't get any.
The positive result was that a couple of local people who new what I was doing let me have 5 more wild fish at a reasonable price.
The LFS is also putting me in touch with people they know to be keeping them in community tanks.
Also had a couple of feelers for the exchange I proposed in the forum.
As for the project and the secrecy a few points.
Is this the same project that Dukerider ( Could be Plastic Mac ) has been talking about?
The project by your comments has virtually ground to a halt, and my experience in business is that when something loses momentum it tends to fail.
I know your hands are tied about the secrecy, and there is no doubt in my mind that people intentions are good towards the fish.
To sum up, the project has ground to a halt, things are being done but we cannot tell you what, the final result will be worthwhile.
Where else have I heard similar? The House of Commons.
Now say this project does fail, how long down the line this may be who knows, it appears that in the meantime no new initiatives are being promoted by the site.
Dave
Well not much of an article to write.
I donated 6 to add to their two, come the end of September I will be donating two more unrelated to the original 6, and this will go on for as long as they want them.
I asked for a bit of support on here, I didn't get any.
The positive result was that a couple of local people who new what I was doing let me have 5 more wild fish at a reasonable price.
The LFS is also putting me in touch with people they know to be keeping them in community tanks.
Also had a couple of feelers for the exchange I proposed in the forum.
As for the project and the secrecy a few points.
Is this the same project that Dukerider ( Could be Plastic Mac ) has been talking about?
The project by your comments has virtually ground to a halt, and my experience in business is that when something loses momentum it tends to fail.
I know your hands are tied about the secrecy, and there is no doubt in my mind that people intentions are good towards the fish.
To sum up, the project has ground to a halt, things are being done but we cannot tell you what, the final result will be worthwhile.
Where else have I heard similar? The House of Commons.
Now say this project does fail, how long down the line this may be who knows, it appears that in the meantime no new initiatives are being promoted by the site.
Dave
You could appreciate all that IS done and make an effort to understand that not everyone accomplishes things in the same way, or needs public recognition or approval for it. Rob puts a ton of time into the site, with all that he has going on his life at the moment. If it's not satisfactory to you, contribute more! Don't complain that things aren't to your satisfaction, make a difference yourself. In a perfect world we could stay home and devote all our time to making sure pet projects get finished. In this real one we live in we have to do them as we can.
And honestly, I don't blame Rob for being sour on devoting a ton of time to a forum full of the regular posters that won't get along and treat each other with respect for a common cause. This ongoing bickering isn't doing anyone any favors. Please keep that in mind before you hit enter when you post. Hasn't anyone had any good news? It's like the frustration entailed in getting these darned fish and then getting them spawning has soured a bunch of truly great people into crotchety old hobbyists that refuse to see any other way might be just as "right".
Barbie
And honestly, I don't blame Rob for being sour on devoting a ton of time to a forum full of the regular posters that won't get along and treat each other with respect for a common cause. This ongoing bickering isn't doing anyone any favors. Please keep that in mind before you hit enter when you post. Hasn't anyone had any good news? It's like the frustration entailed in getting these darned fish and then getting them spawning has soured a bunch of truly great people into crotchety old hobbyists that refuse to see any other way might be just as "right".
Barbie
[url=http://www.plecos.com][img]http://plecos.com/plecosbanner.gif[/img][/url]
Hi
Please note that in the opening line of my previous post on this thread I did express appreciation of all that Rob has done and this has been repeated in many other posts I have made.
As for recognition, everbody is entitled to their opinion. But I think I am doing something and some people do agree with me, over the past 4 or 5 months I have acquired 5 more pre ban fish, my lfs is putting me in touch with people they know to be keeping them in community tanks.
In addition it has put me in contact with two people locally who hold wild stock and exchanges of young have been agreed.
As for seeking recognition, who knows, but without this site or me beating the drum about Zoos none of the above would have happened.
In addition the fish is my major concern, and if anybody thinks what I am doing is to the detriment of the fish please let me know.
Amazing, I am inviting criticism, I normally get this without inviting it.
Once again Rob, thank you for putting this site in place, and after my shaky start on this site where I was somewhat critical of people I will try to keep things positive, it is I think beneficial to all around.
Dave
As for recognition, everbody is entitled to their opinion. But I think I am doing something and some people do agree with me, over the past 4 or 5 months I have acquired 5 more pre ban fish, my lfs is putting me in touch with people they know to be keeping them in community tanks.
In addition it has put me in contact with two people locally who hold wild stock and exchanges of young have been agreed.
As for seeking recognition, who knows, but without this site or me beating the drum about Zoos none of the above would have happened.
In addition the fish is my major concern, and if anybody thinks what I am doing is to the detriment of the fish please let me know.
Amazing, I am inviting criticism, I normally get this without inviting it.
Once again Rob, thank you for putting this site in place, and after my shaky start on this site where I was somewhat critical of people I will try to keep things positive, it is I think beneficial to all around.
Dave
