Everything you ever wanted to say about "Zebra luvin", but didn't because you thought everyone would take the mickey! Plus general topics for discussion including everything from what you feed them to your personal experiences.
Well I was having a discussion with Barbie over some questions that were still rather unclear and she suggested that everyone should partake in this discussion.
1. Has anyone ever bred them in straight tap water? My tap has a TDS of 270ppm, a kH of 2 and a gH of 9 (this might have changed?). Can they spawn in this water?
2. Regarding water changes, is 50-70% weekly deterimental for the Zebras? It seems to get my Rams into spawning every week, would it do the same for the Zebras? [As opposed to changing 20% of the water everyday untill they spawn]
3. Why would decor deter them from spawing? I was thought to believe that if fish want to breed they will breed regardless of whatever is in the tank? I mean fish have nothing else to do but eat and breed.
4. Have you ever had two males spawn in the same tank? Can this be accomplished regularly?
whats up bro! You never called!! I didnt mean to push your questions off, I just thought it would be easier if we talked about this subject.
But anyways...I think decor helps out alot! I think they fell safer and not so stressed out! I believe your a lucky man with some good water!! My water over here in glendale is about 800-900ppm TDS!!! LOL....But you should use straight tap, conditioned of course, for your beef up stage. High temp and all that stuff! And than mix a half RO /half tap for the rainy season!
Something happened to me this last month in which had me baffled! Another group of zebras spawned for me and it has a very low current and the TDS was at 500! And the only thing I did was gave a big water change and added a huge plant, that covers the light so the tank looks really dark! ANd i left them alone for a few weeks and would just drop in food and head off to work!
2. As long as the water is of the same pararmeters as the water in the tank so the fish aren't shocked then I see no problem. However I can state mine have spawned recently and I've never changed that much water..I wouldn't. I do approx. 2 water changes a week of about 20% each time.
In answer to the question about breeding them in your tap water...I would think it's possible.
3. Zebra's obviously need caves...so there's one decor that's required. As for whether decor can be detrimental...no I don't think so. I think decor can be irrelevant and not used by the fish but not really detrimental. The only way I can see it being detrimental is if there is so much it stops you properly cleaning the tank.
4. No I haven't, but I have certainly heard of it happening and if it's been accomplished once I don't see why it couldn't be accomplished regularly.
Your level of hardness is about what mine was when I first started spawning L260 Raul. It made life MUCH easier because you can provide that fluctuation that they need to stimulate the spawns without having to add buffers or anything. My problem here lately has been that the water has been so very soft that it's difficult for me to get it hard enough to then soften it quickly with the RO changes. The 50-70% weekly gets your rams to spawn because they don't need a huge amount of fluctuation like the zebras do, basically.
You don't NEED to do constant big water changes for zebras. You NEED to let the TDS climb in their tank somehow. If that means 10% changes once or twice a week for a month and then a 50% change with RO every day for a week, that's what it means. If you have 700 ppm out of your tap, you can do pretty big water changes for the "dry" season month and then just swap to daily RO changes and get there too. It all depends on the conditions you start with. I've had zebras spawn when I wasn't trying to stimulate them and ignore me when I was, so it's not like there's a hard and fast rule .
When I first started working with the zebras I had the tank chock full of nooks and crannies and places to hide. When I finally got them to spawn I had just moved them to a larger tank and not added any decor other than what they had, but I added 3 more fish to the mix. This made them tussle and struggle to get the best spots and made the females much more willing to go into the caves, what with the other triggers. I was later told that less decor is a secret to more frequent spawns. No idea if it's true, but my minimal decor definitely doesn't stress the fish. They're all fat and sassy.
I haven't had two male L46 spawn in one tank. Keep in mind, I also have that hyperdominant male though. He barely lets other males use caves, let alone think about spawning in a 4 foot tank. I've had 2 L260 spawn in a 3 foot tank and I know of 2 people that have had two spawns of L46 in one tank.
Different things work for different people. There isn't just one way to work with these fish. Most everyone has found that you need the fluctuation to get them started, after that it's not always necessary depending on the colony. Temperatures range from 82-88 degrees with spawning success at all of them. Some people have zebras that eat snails. Mine wouldn't go to that much effort if their lives depended on it . How you keep them and what not WILL influence how they behave and what you need to do with them, I'd think.
And I definitely think the forum will benefit from discussing some of these points in one thread, don't you?
I'm new here, hope you don't mind me throwing this out.
1. I think I have, going by what you call tap water. I am using aged now, but no other changes/adds or whatever. Before moving the zebs to their breeding tank, they were kept in a 75g (20 of them), plenty of hiding spots, but no caves with dead ends. I did direct water changes - weekly or biweekly and about 20% to 30%.
When I moved them to the 30 (spliting the group), the water was aged, and I had some of their old tanks mates in the tank before moving them for a week. I did a water change the day before - direct from the tap. Moved them the next day on a Sat, the following Sat one of the males had the first spawn.
From then on, they mostly get aged water, I have a spare 45 that I age it in - about 25% weekly, unless fry and then biweekly. I have not used additives and I don't have a RO or condition it with anything. I only used the aged water as others have said the the fry could be killed by the new water.
So I think I have them breeding in what you would call straight tap water. Also, once I thought the fry were out, they got tap water a couple of times. I change about 20% when doing this. I believe the tap waters may cause some stress to the fish, but I also think it would kill any pathogens as well. The zebs have never seemed bothered, and would eat well the same day. I have syno, petricolas - and they cannot have straight tap - I have to do very small water changes for them if I don't have aged ready.
2. I have done 50%, changes but not on the breeders, and not planning to. I do this if the tank is having a problem, cloudy water, or when I use new swahala wood and the tannis gets bad with new pieces - even after soaking for a couple of months.
3. The caves are important, and they have to like them. The cones seem perfect, as they narrow down. The male can cover up the end with his entire body, and leave space for eggs and fry. I put most of mine under other rocks, to stabilize them and provide cover for visiting females. Since the cones are up off the bottom (floor), I put some flat slate for them to be able to slide straight into for some of the cones. Give them the choice of what they want.
4. Not yet, not sure if I will. The alpha male in the left tank looked beat up once, but not as bad as one of the other males. I think he had to let the others know who was boss. I just have this feeling that I won't have this happen. I know I haven't had them going long, but some of the female seem ready, but nothing happening with the other males. Do they know who the top guy is? Is it worthless to spawn if it won't make it? Or is the alpha just that good looking? The tank is small (30" x 18" foot print) and that has some play into my thought as well.
jerms55555 wrote:whats up bro! You never called!! I didnt mean to push your questions off, I just thought it would be easier if we talked about this subject.
Sorry, I didn't call Jeremy. I recently caught the flu and my voice sounds horrible. I didn't want to scare you!
Barbie wrote:
And I definitely think the forum will benefit from discussing some of these points in one thread, don't you?
I was never against the idea. Everyone should benefit, but I just thought my questions would be repititive.
I'm really learning a lot from everyone varied information. But are you taking into account expierenced breeding Zebras versus Zebras that have never bred before? It's just because I hear once they start, they just won't stop. But it's always the newcomers that are difficult to get going. Sorry, I shouldv'e included that in my question.
I think Raul wants more info on this, going by the already breeder group versus new breeders question.
I believe my zebras were first time breeders in tap water. When I moved my zebras I had never gotten any indication they were spawning. I never saw a male doing anything that suggested he had something with him. I didn't supply them with dead end caves, which I think is pretty important, and the temp was kept around 80 degrees. Until you asked, I never really querstioned if they had or hadn't bred before, and I 'll leave the door open to the possibility. I would also think that since I am now seeing fry that have lived and look about a month old with adults, that I would have gotten them in the 75 before moving. I won't be able to prove either way, but I would say they had not bred before moving them to the 30.
To make this somewhat moot anyway (maybe I should have started with this) I used tap water from the beginning in the 75, and it would have been direct to that tank - not aged at all. If they were breeding in the 75, it was in tap water.
One other thing I didn't mention. Lighting, kind of falls into decor. When they were moved, since I don't use any gravel (bare bottom), I kept the lights off. I don't know if that helped, but it hasn't hurt. The room itself is in the basement, but I have two windows in this room. One is normal window, the other is glass block. I don't need to turn on the lights during the day. At night the other tanks provide the light to the room. I have 12 tanks running right now - plan on adding a few more. Anyhow, the zebras do get light, but not directly overhead like they had in the 75. I do have a light for the tank and will use it to catch the little ones soon, and occasionly to really check on the zebras health and a periodic thorough cleaning.
I'm hoping this is what you wanted to know, or I've misinterpreted. Sometimes things are so clear, but the printed word doesn't help.
