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[wandj]

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[Rob]

Hi Wandj

Sounds like you have a couple of iesty ones there. First thing first, are you positive that it is a male and female and not two males. If you have a digital camera, try and get a few pics, and either post them in the forum, or e-mail them to me and I will pst them.

the behaiour you are describing does sound like territorial threats. If the large dominant male has been in the tank for a while and you intorduce another, which currently does not have a territory, it will immediately challenge the dominant male.

Are there any other territories within the the tank occupied by other zebras? If so, has the new zebra ventured anywhere close to there, and if so, what happened?

I would suggest that you leave them for now, but keep a close eye on the pectorial fins of all fish. The fisrt thing to happen during a fight is a reddening of the pectorial fins.

As far as the temp goes, I would start letting the temp rise back up slowly.

good luck

rob

[wandj]

Hi. Thanks for the advice. I don't have a digi-cam, so can't send pics. If I ever get them out for some reason, I will take some shots and have it developed.
Out of these five, four were guaranteed to be female. Compared to the male I know for SURE is the male (I introduced), "she" is about the same exact size, "her" black lines are not as thick, "her" odonotodes are not near as long, her pelvic fins aren't as "fluffy" and "her" hairs on her pec fins are not as long. The biggest thing I noticed is the head shape. If you look at the outline of the top of her body from the side, there are no bumps or sharp angles. She has more of a curve that rises up from behind her eyes, whereas the male is flat here. ??? Hard to explain, sorry.
I notice my male has a "forehead". Hmm, trying to think of other things I notice.
As of right now, the male is not using the cave, but he found a spot beside it. He is covered and surrounded by moss balls. I can barely see him, but I suppose this situation mimics a cave as well.
"She" is out in the open with the other "females". The others are much smaller and completely not involved with the "pair".
I just looked in on her right now and she has moved. She is right beside the glass and about 3 inched from the male's new spot. BTW, the male has not moved all day, and all the rest including my "big female" have been quite active...every time I look they are in a different spot. I wish I knew more about how the males and females BEHAVE! Maybe it helps to sex them better if they had prominant behaviors.
There are no injuries that I can see...considering the flurry of activity I saw yesterday. I saw Barbie's beat up male. WOW. So neither fish has done what Barbies big male did.
Also, from where they were fighting, neither fish has stayed in that spot. The big male is by that cave which was no where near that battle ground, and the "gravid female" keeps moving around. I call her "gravid female" even though I am not sure. Also, ALL my fish have a blue tinge, so I guess females can have that too.
Thanks all.

[Barbie]

wandj what is the shape of your cave that the male is not using? I've found the cave shape to be of quite a bit more importance than I thought it would be. The behavior you're describing sounds normal to me. I had a female fight with one of my subdominant males for a spot under a log she wanted, but it didn't last long and there was no real damage done. I've had female ancistrus fight to the point I had to separate them, but nowhere near the level the males will get to.

The male that got the bejesus beaten out of him now has a female wedged in the back of his cave again. This is her third time in there, and they're going on 5 days this time. He lets her out eventually, or they're coming out to eat and going back in, because I never see her out for more than a day or two, but neither of them are out of condition to speak of. No eggs, but he's happily cohabitating. If they don't get around to something in the next month or so, I'm going to throw a bigger female into the mix to see what happens.

Barbie

[wandj]

Hi. So it sounds like it is normal.
Thanks Barbie. My cave is homemade. I used square tiles. (The type in bathrooms) I cut them all at 1.5". When I silicone them together, of course I lose a bit because I put the sides on the bottom and top piece. So it might be more like 1.5" x 1.25" x 6" long. I set them so that the wider dimension is laying on the bottom. I use 1.5" because that is what I heard Mr. Roberts used for his breedings. And I have some of his stock. (He was the first credited Zebra breeder and lived right here in Edmonton/St. Albert in Canada. (Very close to me). He had an article in TFM in 1995...which I have never been able to find yet.
Anyway, I just shot off a whole role of "her" and my Zebra-faced L134. (He has the backwards "E" on his head and is gorgeous). I will post the L134 if I can ever figure out how to send my pics to Yahoo!
Anyway, the male was using the cave in the other tank, but is now laying beside it. He looks very crowded in those moss-balls. But he obviouly wanted a squishier place to be. Right now, no one is using the cave.
Rob mentioned to look for red pec fins. I did see some very tiny blood spots on the tips of her pec fins. Does not look like any other marks other than that. Obviously they use their pec fins to poke or scrape each other. Here I thought they bit each other, but have not seen it.

[wandj]

Hi. It took a whole roll of film and 3 hours to get it developed, but here is the "gravid" female...but you can't see her tummy.


Do you see the "curved" forehead? I sent Rob a pic of my male, and he said it is a male. Just this one I'm not sure about.
I shot about 15 pics of my L134 that has the face of a Zebra, but only 2 are half decent. I will try to post them in that "breeding" area under the L134 topic.

[wandj]

Well, let's try this again.

[wandj]

Last time and then I'm giving up!

[/url]

[wandj]

http://ca.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/urchys ... pg&.src=ph


Well, try this. At least you can see it this way I think. Still can't get them on here though.

[du ma]

http://photobucket.com/

try that one

[Barbie]

Are you sure you've made this a public folder? If you have, can you right click on the actual picture and give us the file "properties"? Different hosting companies use different methods of blocking hot linking, so it's hard for us to tell you how to fix this one.

Barbie

[Rob]

Hi Wandj

Here are your phot's I've uploaded them for you. I think ythe problem is that the folder you have them in is not public access.





it definately looks like a female by the head profile, but we'll see what everyone else thinks.

cheers

rob

[wandj]

Oh...thanks so much you guys.
Took me hours to accomplish nothing. I was trying to use Yahoo. I think I will take "du ma's" suggestion and use Photo Bucket from now on. This was the first time I ever tried the pic-post thing.
I couldn't get an overhead shot, as that's is usually the only way I can see them clearly. I only notice the head shape profile on the side after I added the male. When I compared them this way, the difference stuck out like night and day.
So is it true that the males have a sharper forehead? If you ask me, they look like they have more of a frog head.
The females are curved completely and the curve adds a bit of body after the eyes. (Whereas the male, he is flat behind the eyes.)
Oh, this is so hard to explain.
But I'm so glad Rob put my pics on. You can see that curve I'm talking about. Really look hard at the top-line profile.
Thanks for all your help.

[Guest]

Hi wandj,
From the "short" cheek odontodes, it looks like a female , however an overhead shot would be a lot easier to verify whether male or female.
Regards,
Des.

[McEve]

I'm no good at looking at profiles at all I know a lot of people can tell by a glance at the profile, but not me