Buying a single fish

dave · Post by **dave** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:06 am

Should we or shouldn't we? I have no idea.

Many years ago I was breeding Aulonacara Red Flush, quite happily selling the fry. Anyway, lost the male from the colony.

I always kept a couple of females back from each brood.

Anyway, some 12 months later, and this is approximate, I acquired a couple of males, they went through the motions, but from this group no more fry were ever produced.

Now the cliche arises, use it or lose it.

But on a serious note, fish that exhibit parental care, and have relatively few fry, in the main mouthbrooders and cave spawners learn how to do it (My opinion). These fish are notorious for losing the first brood, often put down to sterility, but it may just be inexperience.

Does there come a time when a fish cannot learn.

Is there anybody out there who has managed to breed from an L46 that they know has been isolated from it's species or even the opposite sex for any length of time?

I think I know the answer, but hopefully I'm wrong.

All thoughts are welcome, and hopefully the replies will influence how people acquire these fish.

Post by **Barbie** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:06 am

My big male zebra had spent at least 3 years with no company from other zebras and has produced many successful spawns. I couldn't tell you if he'd ever spawned before the woman purchased him but I do know it iwas 5 years or so total during which he was adult sized and never spawned. Not sure if that helps answer your question or not though

.

Barbie

Alistair · Post by **Alistair** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 1:49 pm

I have a large male that I have had for just over ten years. He was one of two, the other (also a male) died about three years ago

. Perhaps we should have a trial to see if he is still up for a bit after all these years

, any one willing to spare a female

Seriously though, I am really would be intersted to know if he would know what to do after all this time, hopefully I will get the funds together one of these days

KenW · Post by **KenW** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 3:40 am

I have one male that grew up with all different types of plecs. I had him for 7 years without any other zebras with him before I got a colony for him 2 years ago. Now he is my best male.

Ken

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:25 pm

One of my Alphas was in a group of three males for appoximately 3 years when I bought him. He's doing good enough

madmoroccan · Post by **madmoroccan** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:59 am

Ok,

So it is fair to say that you can start with just the one fish and over time build up a breeding colony.

The important thing in pleco breeding is age, water conditions, and ratio... In that order?

Sorry for hijacking the topic, but what can we assume is a fairly sized breeding group? And has anybody bought a group only to find that they couldn't get the group to produce any spawns?

I am interested to know because I have read here, PlanetCatfish and on PlecoFanatics that you can get a plec or two that just wont spawn under aquarium conditions. But I don't know if that is because the people concerned didn't bother with the rainy season simulation water change.

Can anybody confirm this?

Sincerely

Bader.

Post by **Barbie** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:17 pm

My main group of zebras hasn't produced a viable spawn of fry in a year. Granted, I was very busy 8 months of that year and hadn't pushed them the way I have been lately, but still, that's a very long hiatus. They did have one spawn that was infertile in the fall, but nothing since then. They are currently playing "house" and cohabitating on a daily basis, so it shouldn't be long now, but yes, you can have a good idea what you're doing and still have a group that won't spawn

.

The other tank has only had 2 spawns during that same time period. I had 6 spawns in 5 months the year before in the main tank and 3 more in the tank with the "pair", so it's definitely possible that you can have good producers get off track if you get too busy to really push them to produce. Mind you, they were getting fed well and had weekly water changes and what not through all this, they weren't abused, they just also weren't spawning

. Our tap water softened up drastically at the beginning of the year last year and it's taken a bit to figure out what to add to cause the fluctuation that will make them do more than hunker down and wait

.

Barbie

madmoroccan · Post by **madmoroccan** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 4:27 am

Interesting,

I always liked the idea that to get plecs to "get busy" you need to play storm god...

So in summary you are saying that you need to soften the water not harden it? And I could still end up with a "lazy" group even if I accumulate all the fish from different sources?

The zebra way is a confusing one!

Post by **Barbie** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 5:03 am

Actually the reverse, I needed to harden it, instead of softening it, THEN soften it suddenly with the RO water to simulate a rainy season. My water is still basic, so coral and other calceous substrates weren't doing a thing for me. Salt made them spawn, but it was infertile. Rift lake salts really irritated them. Now I'm just using RO right in large quantities during the dry season. They definitely seem to like it better. I'll update you if it makes them spawn or not though

.

Barbie

madmoroccan · Post by **madmoroccan** » Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:36 am

Good stuff. Keep us posted... I met an "old" friend who did zoology at university, I will be going trainspotting on his knowledge! (You know, notepad in hand... wooly jumper, thick specs) By the way, I know that sounds like most of us but I had to try to make myself sound

cool

for atleast one second LOL

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:05 pm

The group I had spawning has taken a year to start again too. But a month and a half ago, suddenly things started happening, forst in one tank, then the next, and good blimey even the male I was convinced I had ruined forever by my experimenting with IR light spawned!

I've now had 5 spawns in a month and a half from the three groups I have. What triggered them might of course not having my face glued to the tank every day, (I'm in hospital during the week, with an extra day "off" today), but more likely the sudden drop in PH in the tap water caused by the snow melting...

There's more than one way of setting them in the mood, going from hard to soft water is one way. Drop in PH an other, and yet another is adding a powerhead, let it sit for a month, then turn it off.

Different breeders have had success with all these approaches, mind you, I'd be very careful with the drop the PH approach....

Point being I guess, change the parameter you can most easily change

madmoroccan · Post by **madmoroccan** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:35 pm

@ McEve

Thanks for the info, and congrats on the spawns...

I am so close to getting a group of 5 juviniles, secret source (you know who you are!

)

So for me the journey is only just beginning. I have three to four years to wait... And I am patient...

I had a tank 3 years ago, and my biggest regret was dismantling it because I had to goto uni, My mum is useless at looking after fish... LOL

I loved those fish. My favourite was my large BN pleco "Eddie". Non of my friends could understand why I liked this ugly looking brown swampthing with antenae protruding out of it's nose! Stupid people! What's wrong with them! They all disappeared slowly... I think that was around the time Eddie got bigger in size

, and pooed a lot more

!

Back to the topic...

Has anybody tried the water hardness thing the other way around? I.E. Soft to hard?

I am looking into Reverse Osmosis at the moment, can somebody who knows how these units work comment on how they soften the water? Or do they just purify it?

Thanks in advance...

Bader.

PS... Nice avatar McEve... Is that one of your feeshies?

Plastic Mac · Post by **Plastic Mac** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 4:48 pm

I've never heard of anyone trying soft to hard, simply because the majority of people live in hard water areas. It is perfectly possible though using widely available chemicals or adding coral sand, tuffa rock etc etc.

I'm no expert on R/O but I undestand the basics which is. R/O purifies waters by passing it through smaller and smaller membranes which remove nearly all particulate matter. Making it 98.8% pure (or some stat similar to that). By removing the particulates you automatically make the water softer...I think

A more indepth explanation can be found here:

http://www.ro-man.co.uk/ro-manfaq.html

madmoroccan · Post by **madmoroccan** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:35 pm

Thanks. That site explains all about RO systems. I guess that's everything I had doubts about vanquished forever!

Cheers

Bader.

Raul-7 · Post by **Raul-7** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 8:39 pm

madmoroccan wrote: I am looking into Reverse Osmosis at the moment, can somebody who knows how these units work comment on how they soften the water? Or do they just purify it?

Plastic Mac gave you the correct concept. Basically what makes water 'hard' is the fact that it has a high Ca++ and Mg++ concentration. An RO unit has a semi-permeable membrane which only allows pure H2O molecules to pass through, all the rest of the ions stay behind. Of course it isn't 100% effecient and I believe silicates somehow pass through the membrane; that is why most RO units now include a DI resin at the end.

But something to keep in mind RO units waste about 3-5 gallons of water for every 1 gallon of pure water it makes.