Hello everyone
Further to http://www.zebrapleco.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1053 regarding my Zebras, I have been reading through all the PMs and having a think about how I can make this work for the benefit of the species.
The offers ranged between £250 and £1000 (which I think is pretty ridiculuous - there must be some people desperate to breed them out there!).
If you read the original thread I am not particularly bothered about the money as long as they are bred (which I no longer have time to do) but I can't possibly expect to be able to police that once they have gone.
So I'm going to charge what I think is over the odds for normal Zebs, but not breeders, and offer the buyer their money back when they give me a certain number of viable fry that I can give away to other breeders I know. Hopefully this will encourage the buyer the get on and breed them.
I was thinking in the region of £600 with £20 back for every viable fry until the money is given back, after that, it is over to whoever gets them. They produce around 18 - 25 per batch, giving a few left over for sale to cover costs or hopefully giving away to others or putting into breeding programs.
I may not of course be able to take the fry myself but ask that they are given to certain other people - such as those I know who are trying to do something to help the breed rather than profit from it.
Anyone interested in this or got any comments or other ideas?
Breeding Trio Sorted - Please Ignore
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Eyeball_Paul
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Breeding Trio Sorted - Please Ignore
Last edited by Eyeball_Paul on Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hi Paul,
I can see what you are trying to do and I suppose it all links to trusting the person you sell your zebs to. I suppose their price may continue to rise and in another year people might be willing to part with £400 per fish so if they haven't got them to breed then the pound signs might start flashing. In addition if they can sell any fry they breed for example £40-£50each then it will be wiser for them to do this rather than the cash back idea you have proposed.
I suppose many aquarists cannot justify parting with hundreds of pounds for a few zebras because they do not want to breed and sell the young on for profit. Those willing to part with £1000 for three fish either have plenty of expendable income, or more likely have a view to breeding the young and selling them on for a profit.
Ultimately the best solution would have been for you to keep hold and breed them as you have already been successful. However, as this can't be done, lets hope whoever you sell/have sold them to isn't interested in making money and some of us might get the chance to own some of the resulting young zebs in a year or two.
I can see what you are trying to do and I suppose it all links to trusting the person you sell your zebs to. I suppose their price may continue to rise and in another year people might be willing to part with £400 per fish so if they haven't got them to breed then the pound signs might start flashing. In addition if they can sell any fry they breed for example £40-£50each then it will be wiser for them to do this rather than the cash back idea you have proposed.
I suppose many aquarists cannot justify parting with hundreds of pounds for a few zebras because they do not want to breed and sell the young on for profit. Those willing to part with £1000 for three fish either have plenty of expendable income, or more likely have a view to breeding the young and selling them on for a profit.
Ultimately the best solution would have been for you to keep hold and breed them as you have already been successful. However, as this can't be done, lets hope whoever you sell/have sold them to isn't interested in making money and some of us might get the chance to own some of the resulting young zebs in a year or two.
Hi Paul, Tom
I must admit, my sentiments exactly. As much as I woudl prefer to look on the "bright side" of everything, through running the forum and sight, I have had the unfortunate pleaserue to seeing just how much people will try and treat these fish as a commodity as opposed to a fish in danger.
I think this one will have to come down to your personal choice Paul. As tom states, unless you sell these fish to someone you know and trust, there is no way you can influence their outcome of supplying fry. If left with the choice of making money back with sellinf 10 fry to joe bloggs, or 30 fry to yourself it would be easier to sell the ten.
SOrry to join in with tom on this rather disheartening and frustrating tone, but it really is a difficult one.
Good luck with your descision, it's not an easy one. If you want I will call round a few aquariums up here and see if they would be intersted in trying to breed them?
rob
I must admit, my sentiments exactly. As much as I woudl prefer to look on the "bright side" of everything, through running the forum and sight, I have had the unfortunate pleaserue to seeing just how much people will try and treat these fish as a commodity as opposed to a fish in danger.
I think this one will have to come down to your personal choice Paul. As tom states, unless you sell these fish to someone you know and trust, there is no way you can influence their outcome of supplying fry. If left with the choice of making money back with sellinf 10 fry to joe bloggs, or 30 fry to yourself it would be easier to sell the ten.
SOrry to join in with tom on this rather disheartening and frustrating tone, but it really is a difficult one.
Good luck with your descision, it's not an easy one. If you want I will call round a few aquariums up here and see if they would be intersted in trying to breed them?
rob
The perfect white lie..."Of course I didn't pay that much for the fish honey"
Just for the record, I'm sure most people on this site have the interests of this fish at heart, but as we all know, there is evidence of human greed on every corner and in every walk of life. I'm not trying to be all doom and gloom but the only true way of knowing if your zebs will be used for the good of the species would be to keep them for yourself. I suppose there is no easy answer, but at least you are trying to care and do the right thing.
Cheers
Cheers
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Eyeball_Paul
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Eyeball_Paul
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From the messages I'm getting, I guess this is a no go, so I think I'll just sell them.
It really makes me sad to just go for the highest bidder yet I don't see any other way of trusting someone to breed them other than who is prepared to make the biggest financial committment. I realise also that this precludes anyone that doesn't have the funds and that is sad but I'm now at a loss for a better way.
It really makes me sad to just go for the highest bidder yet I don't see any other way of trusting someone to breed them other than who is prepared to make the biggest financial committment. I realise also that this precludes anyone that doesn't have the funds and that is sad but I'm now at a loss for a better way.
How does this sound.
You sell the fish to an individual (or donate, whatever you feel comforable with), and that individual then looks after the fish for www.zebrapleco.com. The new owner of these fish, (who could be anyone on the forum), would then supply fry on behalf of the site for competition purposes. i.e. a photo contest, or charity auction. (The money raised from the auction will be paid directly to a charity.)
This will do two things, provide what you are after in the form of free fry,to individuals who are genuinely interested in their fish, and influence more individuals to the site, thus uincreasing education.
You sell the fish to an individual (or donate, whatever you feel comforable with), and that individual then looks after the fish for www.zebrapleco.com. The new owner of these fish, (who could be anyone on the forum), would then supply fry on behalf of the site for competition purposes. i.e. a photo contest, or charity auction. (The money raised from the auction will be paid directly to a charity.)
This will do two things, provide what you are after in the form of free fry,to individuals who are genuinely interested in their fish, and influence more individuals to the site, thus uincreasing education.
The perfect white lie..."Of course I didn't pay that much for the fish honey"
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Plastic Mac
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I have been watching this thread with interest and I would like to put forward an idea that is based on Robs idea but would solve all the mess of who gets them and who doesn't.
OK...
This board has a fair amount of people and many of us are passionate about breeding these and some such as Rob, adam etc have breed these on a regular basis. Now what I propose is..
We ALL put a stake in these Zebs by paying an agreed amount to Eyeball_Paul like a syndicate of owners. We then take a vote on who we would want to look after the zebs and attemp to breed them (the caretaker). When they have been sucessfully breed the fry are offered to the syndicate members for a pre arranged price thats are bargain..such as £50. This £50 is then given to an organisation either agreed by all syndicate members or if no agreement is made then to a charity of Eyeball_Paul choice. Who gets the zeb fry first, second etc. will be pre determained by pulling names out of a hat but all members will get a turn.
As part of the syndicate duties the caretaker will produce regular updates on here..and pics. As members of the syndicate we all take responsibility for the care of the Zebs which includes foods, meds etc.
OK what do you think
OK...
This board has a fair amount of people and many of us are passionate about breeding these and some such as Rob, adam etc have breed these on a regular basis. Now what I propose is..
We ALL put a stake in these Zebs by paying an agreed amount to Eyeball_Paul like a syndicate of owners. We then take a vote on who we would want to look after the zebs and attemp to breed them (the caretaker). When they have been sucessfully breed the fry are offered to the syndicate members for a pre arranged price thats are bargain..such as £50. This £50 is then given to an organisation either agreed by all syndicate members or if no agreement is made then to a charity of Eyeball_Paul choice. Who gets the zeb fry first, second etc. will be pre determained by pulling names out of a hat but all members will get a turn.
As part of the syndicate duties the caretaker will produce regular updates on here..and pics. As members of the syndicate we all take responsibility for the care of the Zebs which includes foods, meds etc.
OK what do you think
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Eyeball_Paul
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Thanks for all the "votes".
I am prepared to give these away if it helps the breed, however I have to be cynical, even though intentions seem good and realise that I cannot police what happens, no matter who is saying what they'll do for the best.
Therefore, if I donate them to someone who breeds on behalf of this site or any other noble cause, I would want a seat on the board so to speak to make sure I wasn't having my leg lifted - no offense intended to anyone, we just don't know each other and I'm sure we've all been let down in the past.
My premise is still the same, if they are going to sit in any tank and not get bred then they may as well stay with me and that would be a crying shame for a rare fish that will breed if given a little time and dedication.
So, either "let's" set up some form of trust for them and find breeders everyone is happy will be up to scratch and all donate something, mine will be this breeding trio.
Or, I'll keep them until such time as I have time again to start paying them attention or sell them. I honestly couldn't choose a buyer from all the people who offered as the cash was really irrelevant and I have no idea of their experience, other than being keen. A more important point may be if you've been successful breeding them before. So a pure sale would be difficult for me as I'd want to quiz the buyer anyway.
Confused
I am prepared to give these away if it helps the breed, however I have to be cynical, even though intentions seem good and realise that I cannot police what happens, no matter who is saying what they'll do for the best.
Therefore, if I donate them to someone who breeds on behalf of this site or any other noble cause, I would want a seat on the board so to speak to make sure I wasn't having my leg lifted - no offense intended to anyone, we just don't know each other and I'm sure we've all been let down in the past.
My premise is still the same, if they are going to sit in any tank and not get bred then they may as well stay with me and that would be a crying shame for a rare fish that will breed if given a little time and dedication.
So, either "let's" set up some form of trust for them and find breeders everyone is happy will be up to scratch and all donate something, mine will be this breeding trio.
Or, I'll keep them until such time as I have time again to start paying them attention or sell them. I honestly couldn't choose a buyer from all the people who offered as the cash was really irrelevant and I have no idea of their experience, other than being keen. A more important point may be if you've been successful breeding them before. So a pure sale would be difficult for me as I'd want to quiz the buyer anyway.
Confused
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Eyeball_Paul
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