Please help: Too much lighting...?

mistern2005 · Post by **mistern2005** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:30 pm

So I've had my zebras for about 2.5 years now - putting them all about 3 years of age. I am hoping that this is the year of my first spawn...

About a year ago I switch tanks around and they now live in a 34 corner hex (so it's actually a pentagon) tank. The tank used to be a planted tank so I just reused the lighting - but I am thinking it might be less than ideal for the zebras. It is 2x65w CF bulbs = 130 watts of light total. It was perfect for growning plants but I am thinking it is too bright for the adults and might impact spawing behaviors.

I can downsize to 2x42 watts or 2x27 watts (hey, it's only money, right?). I still have a few plants in the tank so to keep the plants growing I probably need 2x42W - but the zebras have the prioriity so if less light is better I'll go that route. Here is an older picture of the tank - there are 5 slate caves under the rock piles, and the substrate has been changed to ADA Xingu Sand (light in color) - I'll post a new picture this weekend.

Don't let my bad photography fool you - it is very bright in this tank - 130Watts over 34gallons!

Any advice on the lighting? Do I currently have too much? Any suggestions or rules of thumb?

RAYISKING · Post by **RAYISKING** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:39 am

you do not have enough air flow in that tank your zebs will die. Also you tank is too tall they want more ground space then height. To much light. Also the plants will die when the heat it at 85. Not a good tank for you zebs

Post by **TwoTankAmin** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 2:54 pm

More flow for sure and yes less light. My breeder tank is barebottom and not planted. It has 1 wpg over it, more for me than for them.

Of 3 growout tanks - two have 0 lighting and 2 have very minimal plants. Only one has substrate- small gravel and is the planted tank- it was appropriated from other fish is why.

mistern2005 · Post by **mistern2005** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 3:47 pm

Okay - so perhaps I should explain further -

There are many plants that do well in high temperatures - the two types I have in this tank (hygro augustofolia and hygro polysperma) are potted, not in the substrate. These plants can handle high temps - my tank is at 85*F and these plants thrive, I have to trim them about every two weeks. This is not a planted tank - I am not running CO2 or dosing massive amounts of ferts.

Secondly - I do not need more flow or more oxygenation. I have an Eheim Pro3 on this tank plus a venturi powerhead for mega-aeration. Between the two I've got close to 20X turnover and a tank full of bubbles. The proof is in the pudding, the zebras have been in this tank for over a year now and are healthy, taking/competing for caves, and growing.

My question is not about water turnover, temperature, or anything like that (all of that has worked out very well thus far).

So I have one suggestions for 1 WPG - implying I should get the smallest lights I can do which are the 2x27W bulbs. Does anyone else feel that you can have too much light???

RAYISKING · Post by **RAYISKING** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:38 pm

You can if you want have a bright or semi bright light. Note that they really will only hide during the day. Also have you tried to use a moonlight I am not home right now but I will show you what my tank looks like with a moonlight on it later on. I will post the pic

mistern2005 · Post by **mistern2005** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:05 pm

I ended up taking out 1 of the 65 watt bulbs and repositioning the other - now there is 65W total - that comes out to a little less than 2 WGP now, rather than close to 3.5. It's still lit pretty bright so I'll see how it goes - I might end up downgrading again to a single 42W bulb. But if I go any lower than where I'm at the plants will surely die.

Yes RAY, I do have a moonlight. I also understand their behaviors quite well after keeping them for nearly 3 years now.

Plastic Mac · Post by **Plastic Mac** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:46 pm

I don't use lights in any of my zeb tanks but that's just my preference. I don't think lighting is really an issue as long as your zebs have adaquate places to hide and which are sufficiently dark for them to feel comfortable in. As someone said earlier, they'll hide during the day ie when the lights are on. So I don't think it'd be causing any issues.
Having said that, I get the feeling you're asking this question because yours haven't bred yet and your now wondering if it's due to the lighting?...would that be correct?

mistern2005 · Post by **mistern2005** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:26 pm

Thank you for your response PlasticMac!

Well now that I have cut down to a single 65 watt light the rummy nose tetras which share the tank are a lot happier for sure. The zebras are still themselves...hang out in the caves all day and rummage for food at night.

Yes, you are right...mine haven't bred yet and I was curious if it is too early (they are all probably close to 3 years old) or if it might be the lighting? I can't imagine anything else being wrong as they all appear outwardly healthy, none are skiny, and they have grown up very nicely in the tank. I can get detailed water paramaters at some point if that would be helpful, but the obvious stuff - there is now 65 watts over 34 gallons (about 1.9 WPG), I use half RO water/half tap, it's at 85*F on a temperature controller, and I have about 20X turnover with lots of aeration. Any other information that would be useful?

Plastic Mac · Post by **Plastic Mac** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:45 pm

Well I don't think lighting is the cause of a lack of spawning...and by what your saying most of your set-up is fairly similar to mine, ie 50% RO 50% tap, arond the 85f mark although i have slighlty higher turnover of around the 35-40x mark but yours is definitely sufficient.

The only thing that comes to mind immediately is your tank size. Im guessing by the 34 corner statement that it's 34 gallons in which case it may not be an issue. However, i hold mine in a smaller tank and there was a period of time when I connected it to a second tank of the same size. This meant i had the same water circulating round both tanks which was all well and good...however I didn't have one single spawn during this time. I sure that it was due to the increased water volume which made it all the more difficult for me to reduce the overall temperature by enough of a factor to induce a spawn. I've just checked my tank volume now (it' sbeen a long time since I've had to know lol) and it's probably around the 24gal mark. Ofcourse 2x24 makes for larger tank than you have, if yours is 34, but depending on your water change regime it maybe a factor.

How easy is it for you to lower the overall temperature when doing a water change and how far does the temperature drop, or more importantly how far do you allow it to drop when doing a water change?

Another point which may or may not have any relevance...is how much more work is it having a planted tank? As there is definitely something to be said for leaving them alone for a while. I've heard countless stories of people who've tried and tried to spawn theirs only to pretty much give up, not bother doing a water change etc for 3 weeks and then coming back to find they've finally spawned. Depending on the work involved it maybe just be a case of them never being left alone long enough to feel comfortable enough to start. I have no idea on this as I've never really had any success with planted tanks...I could probably kill a plastic plant given enough time.

btw, forgot to mention in my previous post but it's a beautiful looking tank

also forgot to add: 3 years is definitely old enough to breed. In fact I've heard reports from Germany where they've managed it at 2 years which i was quite surprised about.

mistern2005 · Post by **mistern2005** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:11 pm

Thanks again Plastic!

Yes - the 34 corner tank is 34 gallons - its like 1/4 of a hexagon (so it's really a pentagon, shaped liked home plate in baseball).

When I do a water change I can easily bring the water down from 85 to 78 without an issue (I could probably drop it even a little more). I store the RO water going in my "cellar" so it's pretty darn cold. I usually mix it with warmer water tap water to not induce such a shock. I've never tried a "rainy season" type of water change with a huge drop in water temp and using 100% RO rather than 50/50 RO and tap. I guess I easily could I would just need to know more information about doing it properly before I try it.

I do have a large heater on a very good temperature controller so usually after a water change the water comes back up to temperature fairly quickly - certainly within an hour. I, of course, could adjust the controller and let the water stay cooler longer.

As far as work for a "planted tank" - very little. I have easy to keep plants in pots (hygros, annuibas, etc.). I only manicure the plants once a month or so and that is usually quick and uneventful. I do tend to tinker with the tank - and I'm working on cutting that out, but it's so difficult!!!

I'll do some searching, but I would certainly appreciate and read any advice you have about simulating a "rainy season". Thanks again.