Fry

[reticulata]

Anyone have opinions on when fry should or could be removed from the spawning tank? Thanks,
Lary
Oregon, USA

[Barbie]

I no longer remove fry from the spawning tanks until they're old enough to be sold. I used to take them and keep them in a condo to keep them "safe" and be able to concentrate food to them. All this accomplished was causing more snub nosed fry from injuring themselves against the sides of the container.

If you do still want to remove the fry, I would recommend doing it when they are just getting ready to leave the cave. Netting fry in those first few months is both dangerous and nerve wracking!

Barbie

[Line]

Hi Barbie

All this accomplished was causing more snub nosed fry

I couldn't agree more

but

injuring themselves against the sides of the container

this opinion is new to me. I always found the topic were interesting.

Anyhow, I am convinced, that snub nosed fry are caused by the environment - NOT as a genetic error.

Myself I dont use the condo, and I have never had a snub nose fry. I have adopted quite a few snob noses, to try to breed on them. Just to prove, that they are absolutely allright genetic.
To many breeders kill them for the wrong reasons.
I think. I hope, I'm right.

Best regards
Line

[TwoTankAmin]

If I could, I would never remove fry from the breeder tank. However, I do remove some for a few reasons. I do not move either eggs or fry to breeder traps of any sort.

1. By spreading them out some, it insures no single tank disaster can wipe them all out.
2. Over crowding- there is a limit to how many fish can stay in one tank.
3. Fry are a lot easier to catch in a smaller growout tank. I normally try to have fish about ready for sale in smaller tanks where I can get them out easier.

What I can say with 100% certainty for my setup is that fry left in the the breeder tank grow a lot faster than those moved to growout spaces.

I can also state that out of about 250 fry born to date, only one has developed a snub nose.

[reticulata]

I appreciate the response from all of you. I guess my only concern is the older fry attacking the newborns. Must not be a problem. Also, showing my ignorance I don't know what a snub nose is with regard to fry. Sounds like they swim real fast and crash into the side of the tank or a rock and flatten their nose????????

[John]

Read about bulldog fry here: bulldog fry

[Line]

Hi Lary

my only concern is the older fry attacking the newborns

Don't worry.
I deliberately place very young fry together with older fry. The older fry don't attack them or something like that.
Instead - the older fry know how and where to search for food -and the younger ones just follows.
I would even recommend to do this.
Of course - when the older "fry" gets to big - they should have another tank.

Topic "bulldog fry"

Quite a long and exausting thread. I gave up - read the beginning and the end.
I probably missed something in the middle *smile* - I'm wondering if anybody at all thought about bacteria growth infecting on the fry?

In the very beginning I used plastic containers in the tanks. Everything worked all right. Why replace them with glas then?
The plastic containers got older - and naturally more scratched and destroyed. A perfect "substrate" for bad bacteria growth.
Suddenly I had spawns with nearly 100 % with absolutely destroyed fins (L134), death and problems all along. Nothing helped at all.
I started placing the new fry in their own little tank with sand. Directly from spawning tank and directly from the cave.
Since then I had 100 % healthy youngsters.
I never used containers since then. If so, I strongly advice to use glas ones.

We have just heard TwoTankAmin and Barbie - none of them use the containers and none of them have bulldog fry.

My experiment: all from wildcaught parent and from another breeder:
I have bought/ adopted most of all their spawns till now.
This breeder had bad luck and a lot of bulldog fry. I adopted these too.

That means, I have them all and eventually brothers/sisters - some bulldog - some healthy. The bulldog ones could naturally belong to the same spawn. The originally gene pool is big with a lot of different parents.
The healthy ones for sure bring normal fry.
18 bulldog fry/youngsters are still growing out - having their own tank. IF these ones bring normal fry as well, I would claim that bulldog fry are caused from environmental defects.
Or should I rather ask: when is it really proved? Should I crossbreed the hopefully healthy kids with their bulldog parents? If still normal - is it then proved? That would be in around 20-24 months. Please be patient

And please notice: I'm not crazy about the bulldogs - they are indeed not beautifull. And nobody should sell them at all. No bulldog fry will ever leave my tanks! I simply just want to prove this matter.


Best regards
Line

[DaveW]

And please notice: I'm not crazy about the bulldogs - they are indeed not beautifull. And nobody should sell them at all. No bulldog fry will ever leave my tanks! I simply just want to prove this matter.

I applaude you for this undertaking. Is going to be a lot of work for you but it is a topic that we don't know much about. Will hopefully provide some interesting findings! Good luck to you.

[celticfish]

line,
that is a very commendable project you are doing! *thumbs up*
i wish you success in your long project!
and hope to see a post from you on the project.
God willing... i hope to be around to see your post!

[Spunky]

sorry, to bring this up a month later, but i have a few questions about some of the answers on this post. If you leave the fry in the breeding tank...

How big of a tank is it?
How many adults are there?
How long are the fry in there (how long until large enough to sell?)

[smithrc]

we have a 130L with 5 adults and approx 30 fry.

well fed and good amount of water changes will see the fry at about 1" in 6 months. (eg sellable size)