Why is a Zebra Plec like a bank account?

[rhino]

i have resisted posting so but would just like to say....
Zebra's are expensive, period, and like barbie says, no matter how much you rephrase the reasons they are still the same, Demand outweighs supply. Supply does NOT meet demand. if it did the price would be alot lower.
most of the people complaining about price dont have zeb's.
I have a colony of 18 Zebra Plecos, I spent ALOT of money and time locating negotiating and collecting my fish. I drove from sheffield UK to germany on 2 occasions to collect 13 of them, the other 5 from the uk. all in all to setup my breeding stock i have spent around £4000 sterling, This isnt a complaint it was my choice, if it was to expensive i wouldnt pay.
So now my Zebras breed, am i meant to sell the Zebras cheap or give them away? NO WAY
My plan is to sell them at market price (read "market price" not extortian, im not holding anyone to randsome) to recoup my expenditure, when i have regained my £4000 then i will rethink my position.
I appreciate my view is going to gain me some criticism and more however i am well within my right to state my thoughts and the main thought is "why should i end up £4000 out of pocket just so Tom wully or Harry can keep Zebra's on the cheap?
I also Breed L260 queen arabesque, i dont have people complaining about these selling at market price.......

These are the kind of statements that drive away non-zebra owners. Do you have the right to sell them at any price you want, sure. Does this mentality help anyone who is serious about raising them, IMO, no! Why do I think this? With the strength of your statement about regaining your money, I don’t think you would ever consider lowering your prices even after you regain your losses. That’s your choice to make. Take this for what its worth because it is only my opinion. Looking at it from the side of a hopeful owner and one who would rather help others than to be worried about monetary values. You were set back a considerable amount, but like you said, that was your choice. As well it is the rest of ours.

[crazie.eddie]

i have resisted posting so but would just like to say....
Zebra's are expensive, period, and like barbie says, no matter how much you rephrase the reasons they are still the same, Demand outweighs supply. Supply does NOT meet demand. if it did the price would be alot lower.
most of the people complaining about price dont have zeb's.
I have a colony of 18 Zebra Plecos, I spent ALOT of money and time locating negotiating and collecting my fish. I drove from sheffield UK to germany on 2 occasions to collect 13 of them, the other 5 from the uk. all in all to setup my breeding stock i have spent around £4000 sterling, This isnt a complaint it was my choice, if it was to expensive i wouldnt pay.
So now my Zebras breed, am i meant to sell the Zebras cheap or give them away? NO WAY
My plan is to sell them at market price (read "market price" not extortian, im not holding anyone to randsome) to recoup my expenditure, when i have regained my £4000 then i will rethink my position.
I appreciate my view is going to gain me some criticism and more however i am well within my right to state my thoughts and the main thought is "why should i end up £4000 out of pocket just so Tom wully or Harry can keep Zebra's on the cheap?
I also Breed L260 queen arabesque, i dont have people complaining about these selling at market price.......

These are the kind of statements that drive away non-zebra owners. Do you have the right to sell them at any price you want, sure. Does this mentality help anyone who is serious about raising them, IMO, no! Why do I think this? With the strength of your statement about regaining your money, I don’t think you would ever consider lowering your prices even after you regain your losses. That’s your choice to make. Take this for what its worth because it is only my opinion. Looking at it from the side of a hopeful owner and one who would rather help others than to be worried about monetary values. You were set back a considerable amount, but like you said, that was your choice. As well it is the rest of ours.

Well said. BTW, Rhino if you still don't have any zebras by the time I get mine to spawn. I'll give you one or 2, unless you piss me off. Since I should have a production by then, I'll make it up in the next spawns anyways.

Ok guys, let's figure this...I buy 6 juvenile zebras, would roughly cost me $600 (USD). The care and feeding I can't really put a price on it, becuase I have lots of other fish that I feed, so I might as well feed the zebras. Plus watching them grow and interact is payment enough.

Now in 3 years, I get 2 or more to breed and I get maybe 12 spawn. Sell them at first introductory price of $50 (USD). I've already made up for my original cost. Then I sell the following spawns at $25 (USD), I'm already ahead.

Now let's say I decide to not even breed them and sell the adults. Even if I sell them at 1/2 the price of typical adults, I still make a profit.

As a discus breeder close to me told me, he sells his fish cheap and just hopes to make enough to feed the fish. I know even selling them at the cost I plan to I SURE WILL make enough profit for feeding fish and even more.

Of course, if I do sell them, I'm not planning to sell them to any person that wants buy them or likes the pretty black/white stripe fish. I'ld be selling them to any person who knows how to care for plecos, especially zebras.

Why would I sell them so cheap, well, that's what I think they're worth. They are NOT rare. Like I said, I can make a few calls and drive about 30 minutes and pick up from a few breeders. Or I can even drive to 2 surrounding states and pick up from other breeders. Now, if a fish were so rare, I think I would have to wait for a few months or so and HOPEFULLY there will be at least 1 from a spawn.

Yeah, there are allot of breeders out there. When people find out about zebras being available, they buy as many as they can get to also breed and sell to make $$$$. Kind of hoarding the supply. And when people sell them, they sell the whole group, making other breeders the only ones that want to buy them. Probably stopping those who just want one or 2 for their hobby or who really love them, not to make extra cash from them.

And who is to blame for zebras being taken from the wild. We are! As I showed before, you know it's still happing here...

Zebra Has Landed And In Perfect Condition. 100pcs Of Various Sizes To Choose.

[dave]

A couple of posts ago I costed this out approximately, and regular posters are very aware of my feelings on this.

Criticism of Andy here IMO is unwarranted, and my estimate of breeding 50 in 2 years, really is on the high side.

There used to be on this site a table of breeders shown on this site and out of the 43 registered, from what I recall fewer than 50% had achieved this number.

Estimates of costings on what you intend to breed are one thing, the actual breeding is somewhat problematical.

In addition selling fish to people you don't know, what is to stop them reselling the fish the day after at a profit. (Please don't go into this it has been debated many times before, contracts etc)

If somebody sells at £100 or gives them away, they are breeding them and giving other people the opportunity to do so.

Slating people for there approach whichever side of the fence you sit on is likely to drive people from the other side of the fence away.

This in no way in my mind benefits the fish which is why we are all here.

As with life in general people adopt different approaches and we have to accept this.

Dave

[thebuddy]

most areas have local fish clubs you just have to find them im sure people in fish clubs would happily take fish in the hopes of breeding them.

[Jojoyojimbi]

My local fish club is full of cichlididiots, but there are a few of us who do appreciate catfish and i sure intend to pass on fry from the varieties i spawn to them so they too can have breeding groups

[AndyAps.com]

Dave- Thanks for the comments

Eddie and Rhino- The bottom line is that some of us are fortunate enough to own zebra plecos. Yes i chose to pay for mine, i also chose to travel for 2 days to collect them. That is how much i wanted to own Zebra plecos and i was fortunate enough to beable to do it. If you can travel for 30mins and collect zebra's then i would suggest you do ad sell them to rhino cheap which means he doesnt have to wait for you to spawn yours.

rhino says

I don’t think you would ever consider lowering your prices even after you regain your losses.

and how do you come to this conclusion? do you know me? my history? NO. Like dave correctly points out, i could breed 50 zebs over 5 years (which is a high estimate) and still only make £1-2 an hour for my time (and believe me, my time is worth alot more than that!)
If i wanted to profiteer out of breeding fish i would breed medium cost high fry producing fish like angels, dwarf cichlids or tetra's.
Zebra's are not going to make me rich which is why i only take into account recovering my £4000 if possible. electric, feeding, time on maintanence etc does not enter my head because i enjoy it.

Like i said before, i dont own zebra's to make a profit, i own zebra's because i love to sit for hours watching thier behavior, but i come back to my original point, why should i be left out of pocket to provide people with your "give me a hand out attitude" cheap zebra's.
I am all for thier conservation and increasing their captive population to reduce pressure in the wild........but why should i do this at a monetary cost to myself just to give you the same oppertunity for free...........especially when you seem so bitter and ungrateful about it?

[crazie.eddie]

I own 2 and am trying to buy more. If I buy 1 buy now and sell it cheap, then I spend more time waiting to save enough money to buy one for myself. Have you ever heard of the term "Don't count your chickens before they hatch". So why should I sell cheap zebras when I have no spawn? I'm losing money and time buying them at a higher cost and selling them at a lower costs. I'm not sure how you do business, but that makes no sense. It DOES make sense to buy your production equipment, get setup and start producing. Then sell the products that you just produced.

[AndyAps.com]

yes im fully aware of business, i run my own very succesful business. but i dont run my zebra's or my fish as a business. it is my hobby and one i truely enjoy. this is how i view my zebra's, They cost me £4000, if i can recover some of this by selling the fry then hopefully i can get to the stage where my zebra's cost me Zero. i can then enjoy the most beatiful fish i have for free!
At this point i will glady start to introduce other people to the zebra at zero expenditure. but as you mention business..........why would it make sense for me to outlay £4000 and then sell my product at way under market price because people want them cheaper?
I would love a blue eye panaque cheaper but it aint happening, i know loads of people that would take a ferarri at half price........not gonna happen. The market value of somethin is decided by what the consumer is prepared to pay.....if this fish wasnt rare and was readily available then people wouldnt be prepared to pay the extortionate fee's people are charging, they would go elsewhere and get it cheaper.

[rhino]

and how do you come to this conclusion? do you know me? my history? ?

At this point i will glady start to introduce other people to the zebra at zero expenditure. but as you mention business..........why would it make sense for me to outlay £4000 and then sell my product at way under market price because people want them cheaper?

You just answered your own question.

Look Andy, I'm not trying to stir things up. And you are free to do as you choose. Please believe me when I say I dont mean to sound as if I'm looking down on you for what you do. It's just not how I would do it.

[Jojoyojimbi]

this thread has devolved into nothing more than ranting and bickering, there are a few people who will sell them to people they've grown to trust and know for a discount, i recommend being a nicer person and passing on any helpful knowledge you aquire about the zebras to the new users, maybe one of those 'angels' will gift you with discount zebras to give you a shot at breeding them

i personally am ordering a lot of plecos and going to attempt to breed them before i own zebras again because i feel personally responsible for any fish i own having a chance to reproduce

[AndyAps.com]

well said joyjoy i fully agree,

i wont be posting in this thread again due to the fact it has degenerated to nothing but whinging etc

i will just say tho that, I in no way answered my own question and that yes eddie you do come accross as very demeaning and disencouraging but i in noway what so ever have to justify myself or explain my actions to you. like joyjoy says, make the effort encouraging people and by all means criticism is welcomed, but please make it constructive and maybe someone will return the favour by helping you with cheap zebs