And They've Done It!

Raul-7 · Post by **Raul-7** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:52 pm

Unlike the other embarrasing thread, this time they've finally done it!

TDS: 370ppm
gH: 6
kH: 2
Temp: 84-86F

Possible Triggers: This one is tough. They've been with me for 3 weeks now and all I did was do weekly WC's. However, when I acclimated them the TDS was 520ppm and then I did a cold WC and brought it down 320ppm. Earlier this week I moved things around in the tank and kind of stressed out the females. I started giving bloodworms last week as well. All these are possible triggers.

How it Started: The last couple of days I noticed the largest female was regularly loitering around the male's cave entrance. The male seemed uninterested in her approaches and with a gentle head-butt made her retreat, this went on for 3 hours each day. However, on Saturday something different happened. She finally managed to seduce him into letting her in. Ever couple of hours she would take a quick breather and then head back in for some more cave rocking. The next day (Sunday) they were still together, however I noticed he was adventerous and was willing to try different caves. He kicked the smaller male out and went in for another round and even took turns with different females! No joke! Woke up this morning to find out the fun was over and the alpha male went back home and is currently nursing 7+ eggs.

All this time I knew something was going to happen, however I had no idea if it was going to be fertile. But by the looks of it, I think it's fertile as I managed to see the white spot at the top of the eggs.

Now to wait for the tail swishing of tiny Zebras. I actually like the sound of that.

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:02 pm

Congratulations!! And please, do leave them alone until the male kicks them out in about 4-5 weeks time

Much better for the male much better for the fry

Post by **Barbie** » Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:49 pm

Heck, now to get him a paper bag to breathe into :p. Congrats! Inquiring minds wanna know, did you do a happy dance?

Barbie

Raul-7 · Post by **Raul-7** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:46 am

Unfortunately he ate most of them and then proceeded to kick two fertile eggs out the door.

And the egg shells on the two eggs ended up rupturing.

I'm disappointed no doubt, but I understand it's part of the learning process for the male. Eventually he will master it, it's just disheartening to lose potential Zebras, even if the male knows best. (I'm not sure he does at this point?)

However, the alpha male is acting like he's still gaurding eggs (and no I checked, he has none left), which is somewhat strange. And one of the larger females made an approach, yet he left her waiting and eventually she lost interest. One smaller female even tried to spawn with the beta male and somehow he refused to let her in after countless attempts. I guess he knows what will happen if the alpha gets word of it.

Anyways, I just wanted to keep you up-to-date and hopefully he'll come back to his senses in the next couple of days and give it another shot.

dave · Post by **dave** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:56 am

I would have a go at hatching them artificially next time.

I do it 50 50 artificially and natural, far better results with the artificial method, and no snub noses.

Dave

andrewcoxon · Post by **andrewcoxon** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 9:42 am

alright dave?

how do you do it? your the 1st person who iv seen who hasnt said "let the male do it"

how do you get the eggs out ect?

very interesting!

all the best,

andy

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:06 am

andrewcoxon wrote:
your the 1st person who iv seen who hasnt said "let the male do it"

My impression is that taking the eggs was the norm before this site. I did it myself with the first three spawns, until I discovered how much better the fry were doing with the father than an airstone.

They grew faster and was generally stronger.

andrewcoxon · Post by **andrewcoxon** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 11:09 am

iv havent had a spawn yet as iv got no females but iv got a mature female coming soon and when i do eventually get a spawn id be in two minds what to do. i like the idea of the dad doing everything but at the same time id like to be able to see how they are all doing and make sure there all ok and the best place to keep a check on them is in a breeder tank.....

Post by **Barbie** » Wed Sep 06, 2006 6:34 pm

I no longer remove the eggs OR the fry from the male. I've done both through my learning curve with these fish. The father does a far better job than we could ever do at caring for the eggs. Yes, he's going to need a chance to learn how it all works, but all that takes is patience on our parts

.

In 3 spawns my big male currently has 29 fry, all appear normal, with no more snub noses. This is the same male that had a very high proportion the first go around. The only difference is that I'm leaving them the hell alone this time

.

Barbie

jerms55555 · Post by **jerms55555** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 6:25 am

I agree with Barbie, Raul.....I would personally leave them alone and let them do what there going to do! And by saying that "try" to not intrude in on them or the father while he is guarding his clutch...I always get the feeling they never like a big flashing light and a huge face with a smile from ear to ear looking at them!

Raul-7 · Post by **Raul-7** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:09 am

I left him alone. I promise!

I was talking to Kevin and he doesn't believe taking a little peek will disturb him that much, it's his expierence that causes him to make those mistakes. With time he'll get better, just don't mess with them.

He also advised I use softer water next time - anyone notice size clutch in soft water (180ppm and lower) vs hard water? Interesting topic.

Post by **Barbie** » Thu Sep 07, 2006 7:47 am

My last clutch was the largest so far this go around with 14. My fish have been in nothing but tap water and the TDS today is 248ppm. I haven't checked in more than a month though, so I couldn't say for sure what it was when they were spawned. It had to be close. They've had only tap water changes since they started spawning months ago.

Barbie

Raul-7 · Post by **Raul-7** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:56 pm

Twenty-five days after the first attempt the male and female were at it again, this time it was with the butch female (the same large one above - I'm serious she's as big as the other males in the colony).

I noticed the activity on Wedenseday, took the usual head count and found one missing - looked everywhere and then noticed the male was deep inside his cave. However, by nightfall she left and on Thursday she was back for more and this time stayed untill the early hours of Friday morning. Took out my LED lamp and I think I saw a couple of eggs, I promise I put my LED lamp away now - I don't want to stress him out like last time.

Trigger: I think I've found out what did it, two weeks ago I did a large WC with DI water to bring the TDS down from 380 to 220ppm, then earlier this week I added a pinch of GH booster and 3-5 days later things started to get interesting.

Let's hope they make it past the two-day mark, unlike last time.

alga · Post by **alga** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:54 pm

I leave the babies with Dad until he kicks them out. He knows how to best care for fry better than me....go figure

As for a trigger... after they spawn the first time, I don't think it matters. I do nothing special and mine continue to spawn, can only imagine what my "dissolved solds, pH or Oxygen level" might be.

Feed well, consistant water changes.......the secret to life

n00dl3 · Post by **n00dl3** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:32 am

Raul congrats on your 2nd spawn. Good luck with them.

Just a question, How do you drop TDS in a tank and what is a good test kit?

And They've Done It!

And They've Done It!

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