First and foremost, the criteria for releasing fish, in another thread Plastic Mac suggested 2, this thread has suggested 6, and my idea is up to 4.
So no agreement here, but if fish are being released to new owners, it is surely a step in the right directon.
Adopting the policy off selling fish at well below the current market price, will have a knock on effect throughout the market place in the long run, but the seller runs the risk of somebody profiteering out of their efforts.
On this basis it is the seller who has to make the judgement on whether they sell.
As for a lottery, well I'm out, a priority list based on experience, who decides, is it having previously bred another species of Hypancistrus or what?
As a breeder, and I get the feeling that other breeders may think the same, the best person to make an assessment on how capable a recipient of these fish is, is the breeder themselves, and we all have different ideas about this fish and the way forward.
And while other things I have mentioned in the past are ongoing, starting this thread, and it seems some people are already adopting this approach, was hopefully to prompt other breeders to adopt a similar approach.
I know people who have Zebras who don't want to be mentioned, this is their right, and I respect it, but I do find this secrecy a little annoying. If people can't get the fish how can an interest be maintained.
Talk of lotteries etc in my mind is jumping the gun somewhat, one step at a time is my belief, and if something is to be put in place on a more formal basis, lets make it realistic.
Dave
Why is a Zebra Plec like a bank account?
I know a few people that don't like to publicize that they spawn zebras because they don't want to be deluged with emails and have people treat them like hellspawn because they won't give them the fry 
. I've had people be downright ornery to me because I couldn't help them with their own personal dreams and aspirations. I had to work to get my fish and work harder to get them to do more than eat and stare at me from the other side of the glass. I love to see initiative but the open hand and guilt trip leave me, and many others, cold. If people aren't so busy bugging you for something for nothing all the time it makes it MUCH easier to feel generous.
IMO finding fish to outcross to improve breeding programs is common sense. Noone is going to intentionally breed into a too small gene pool more than once. They'd have fry to swap out to outcross. Poof, problem solved. Some of the worries I keep reading seem like much fuss over a problem that doesn't exist and probably never will, no?
Barbie
. I've had people be downright ornery to me because I couldn't help them with their own personal dreams and aspirations. I had to work to get my fish and work harder to get them to do more than eat and stare at me from the other side of the glass. I love to see initiative but the open hand and guilt trip leave me, and many others, cold. If people aren't so busy bugging you for something for nothing all the time it makes it MUCH easier to feel generous.IMO finding fish to outcross to improve breeding programs is common sense. Noone is going to intentionally breed into a too small gene pool more than once. They'd have fry to swap out to outcross. Poof, problem solved. Some of the worries I keep reading seem like much fuss over a problem that doesn't exist and probably never will, no?
Barbie
[url=http://www.plecos.com][img]http://plecos.com/plecosbanner.gif[/img][/url]
I guess I"m a little slow at getting in on this one but I must say its
been a very good read! The thing is, I don't necessarily think
anyone is wrong here- we tend to base alot of what we do on
our own experience, and that will vary from person to person.
I have done my fair share in dealing with pet stores, although
not over fish as yet. What really turned me off, is the cheapies
would pay a dollar or two for an animal and then sell it for $25
or $30---that I DO have a problem with. Thats not just making
ends meet, or good business, thats highway robbery and I won't
deal with anyone who does the same thing. I'm not a big fan of
greedy people getting rich off the backs of those who do all the
work...However that is capitalism at its finest I suppose.
When I first started researching zebs, I did kinda squirm at
the prices. However its not my first endeavor into somewhat
scarce creatures so it wasn't enough to scare me off. Rather
intrigued me actually. I like a challenge, but just getting fry
to resell isn't my goal. My goal is something that it may take
the rest of my life to achieve, but then again isn't unattainable.
Its enough to keep me busy and going at it, and not too much
that I am in over my head.
Its been a while since I posted my intents, some of you I'm
sure remember. Yes, I'm still here and YES, I have zebs!
However, my goal is such that i will require more stock, so
I will need to continue to collect to get the broad bloodline
base I need. I will be looking at 4-6 fish per aquisition, but
I will confess that some of the amounts some have sought
would make that very much impossible for me. I'm a single
mom looking after my 4 kids myself, I don't make alot of
money. I'd gladly show you my pay stub if it helps....but
I can also describe in detail my tank setups, filtration, caves
etc, and even pics when I can get some to come out decent.
I've got one small group just settling in, 2 caves taken over
and I'm still doing water changes every day. I've got a few
more tanks cycling as we speak, no one in them yet but I
do want to keep them for zebs. I've got all I need but more
fish. There are a few in my area but one guy wouldnt look
at an offer of less than $500 canadian per fish- he didnt
pay that but thats what he wants to sell them. it would be
nice to find another source closer, in the nw US or western
canada- all driveable distances, and at least I can control
the environment somewhat, with some heat and air stones
for the journey. Winnepeg is some 13 hours, Vancouver is
some 11 hours, Spokane is about 6 hours, seattle is
about 10 hrs. South Dakota, well, that might even be a
possibility. less hassle at the border, cause i'm driving
them and controling the environment dureing the trip with
some filtration and heat and maybe even some caves to
help the stress. I'll do anything to make it more likely to
work,
I dont have any fry as yet, but these guys are just
settling in, gettin caves and quite possibley a move to
a larger tank. One group of 4 is quite cosy in a 10 gall.
tank, with 3 caves in it and other slate hideing spots.
It only takes me about 10-15 minutes to change 2 tanks,
and I'm not having any trouble working it around the
kids. Keeps me away fromthe tv, just here snooping
around. Sorrr
sorry if i've wandered a bit, but i would like to say,
that if we have breeders iin different countries, the
regs getting them shipped to canada are ok, except
for the US to canada- special permit reqd I hear,
But if I DRIVE for them thats not a problem and if
the fish price is reasonable i may be able to do
the drive to get them. I'm a trucker by trade, so
driving 18 hours to get somewhere is no big deal.
Now I just have to find someone willing to sell me
some i reallly can afford.l I've been nothing but
honest with everyone on this board, I'm sure Dave
could back that up.
i'd like to see breeders be able to swap, and i
absolutely agree with the post about signing a
contract ,....i have done that with my other
critters, works great and i've been able to
get stock back(other animals of course)
i dont see why something liek that couldnt
work to some degree. I'll sign anything- my
interest is in keeping the fish to spawn, adding
more stock, maybe trade or outright buy somore
I have LOTS of tanks I can fill.......
CArol
been a very good read! The thing is, I don't necessarily think
anyone is wrong here- we tend to base alot of what we do on
our own experience, and that will vary from person to person.
I have done my fair share in dealing with pet stores, although
not over fish as yet. What really turned me off, is the cheapies
would pay a dollar or two for an animal and then sell it for $25
or $30---that I DO have a problem with. Thats not just making
ends meet, or good business, thats highway robbery and I won't
deal with anyone who does the same thing. I'm not a big fan of
greedy people getting rich off the backs of those who do all the
work...However that is capitalism at its finest I suppose.
When I first started researching zebs, I did kinda squirm at
the prices. However its not my first endeavor into somewhat
scarce creatures so it wasn't enough to scare me off. Rather
intrigued me actually. I like a challenge, but just getting fry
to resell isn't my goal. My goal is something that it may take
the rest of my life to achieve, but then again isn't unattainable.
Its enough to keep me busy and going at it, and not too much
that I am in over my head.
Its been a while since I posted my intents, some of you I'm
sure remember. Yes, I'm still here and YES, I have zebs!
However, my goal is such that i will require more stock, so
I will need to continue to collect to get the broad bloodline
base I need. I will be looking at 4-6 fish per aquisition, but
I will confess that some of the amounts some have sought
would make that very much impossible for me. I'm a single
mom looking after my 4 kids myself, I don't make alot of
money. I'd gladly show you my pay stub if it helps....but
I can also describe in detail my tank setups, filtration, caves
etc, and even pics when I can get some to come out decent.
I've got one small group just settling in, 2 caves taken over
and I'm still doing water changes every day. I've got a few
more tanks cycling as we speak, no one in them yet but I
do want to keep them for zebs. I've got all I need but more
fish. There are a few in my area but one guy wouldnt look
at an offer of less than $500 canadian per fish- he didnt
pay that but thats what he wants to sell them. it would be
nice to find another source closer, in the nw US or western
canada- all driveable distances, and at least I can control
the environment somewhat, with some heat and air stones
for the journey. Winnepeg is some 13 hours, Vancouver is
some 11 hours, Spokane is about 6 hours, seattle is
about 10 hrs. South Dakota, well, that might even be a
possibility. less hassle at the border, cause i'm driving
them and controling the environment dureing the trip with
some filtration and heat and maybe even some caves to
help the stress. I'll do anything to make it more likely to
work,
I dont have any fry as yet, but these guys are just
settling in, gettin caves and quite possibley a move to
a larger tank. One group of 4 is quite cosy in a 10 gall.
tank, with 3 caves in it and other slate hideing spots.
It only takes me about 10-15 minutes to change 2 tanks,
and I'm not having any trouble working it around the
kids. Keeps me away fromthe tv, just here snooping
around. Sorrr
sorry if i've wandered a bit, but i would like to say,
that if we have breeders iin different countries, the
regs getting them shipped to canada are ok, except
for the US to canada- special permit reqd I hear,
But if I DRIVE for them thats not a problem and if
the fish price is reasonable i may be able to do
the drive to get them. I'm a trucker by trade, so
driving 18 hours to get somewhere is no big deal.
Now I just have to find someone willing to sell me
some i reallly can afford.l I've been nothing but
honest with everyone on this board, I'm sure Dave
could back that up.
i'd like to see breeders be able to swap, and i
absolutely agree with the post about signing a
contract ,....i have done that with my other
critters, works great and i've been able to
get stock back(other animals of course)
i dont see why something liek that couldnt
work to some degree. I'll sign anything- my
interest is in keeping the fish to spawn, adding
more stock, maybe trade or outright buy somore
I have LOTS of tanks I can fill.......
CArol
pleco nut 4 life!
www.deemarkbettacanada.com
www.deemarkbettacanada.com
-
TwoTankAmin
- Moderator
- Posts: 1254
- Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:16 am
- Location: Westchester Co., NY
I got the colony from INXS who said they came from 3 sep wild shipments a number of years ago. Since only two of my males are breeding with an unknown number of females, at least 2 and likely more, I assume that 6 fry chosen from slightly different sized fish help guarantee a somewhat diversified gene pool. The two males seem to spawn about a week to 10 days apart.
I just recently got eggs from spawn #7 and also found my first dead fry in the breeding tank.
Also, I would be very interested in participating in a swap of F-1s. If I can get to a colony of grown to adult F-1s, I will need more genetic diversity in it for sure.
The reason I want 3 fish back in return is to be able to sell them and ultimately receive something else back. Hopefully by then they will be worth a lot less if things go well
I just recently got eggs from spawn #7 and also found my first dead fry in the breeding tank.
Also, I would be very interested in participating in a swap of F-1s. If I can get to a colony of grown to adult F-1s, I will need more genetic diversity in it for sure.
The reason I want 3 fish back in return is to be able to sell them and ultimately receive something else back. Hopefully by then they will be worth a lot less if things go well
What makes the common person uncommon is common sense.
Hi Re Guilt Trip
Not really sure what the problem is.
If you mention a spawn on here, people are aware of who's spawning what. In addition it is not that difficult to trawl through this site to find who the successful breeders are. So while you may get some approaches, people continue to do it, it really is not that big a problem in my mind.
In saying the above if people want privacy, I respect it.
As for people lets say being over enthusiastic in their efforts to obtain this fish, on the internet people so far have accepted my first response. On a personal level I can understand that people who you meet or talk to on a regular basis so called friends may think that I should be obliged to sort them out first. Repeatedly saying no is a pain.
Inbreeding, I think is unlikely to cause any problem for a number of years, careful selection of brood stock is likely to produce similar results. I would say though I don't like problems, and would rather prevent them happening than try and resolve them after the event.
This thread started off with the idea of introducing 2 or 3 people to Zebras evey year where possible which I am going to do. I also now know of other people are doing it already, so not really an original idea.
It is a simple idea and in my mind these work best.
Talk of lotteries, contracts etc. overcomplicate things or may even be unrealistic. Would you bother to take legal action if somebody broke a contract, how would you know if they've broken it.
I am doing it on trust and personal judgement.
Dave
If you mention a spawn on here, people are aware of who's spawning what. In addition it is not that difficult to trawl through this site to find who the successful breeders are. So while you may get some approaches, people continue to do it, it really is not that big a problem in my mind.
In saying the above if people want privacy, I respect it.
As for people lets say being over enthusiastic in their efforts to obtain this fish, on the internet people so far have accepted my first response. On a personal level I can understand that people who you meet or talk to on a regular basis so called friends may think that I should be obliged to sort them out first. Repeatedly saying no is a pain.
Inbreeding, I think is unlikely to cause any problem for a number of years, careful selection of brood stock is likely to produce similar results. I would say though I don't like problems, and would rather prevent them happening than try and resolve them after the event.
This thread started off with the idea of introducing 2 or 3 people to Zebras evey year where possible which I am going to do. I also now know of other people are doing it already, so not really an original idea.
It is a simple idea and in my mind these work best.
Talk of lotteries, contracts etc. overcomplicate things or may even be unrealistic. Would you bother to take legal action if somebody broke a contract, how would you know if they've broken it.
I am doing it on trust and personal judgement.
Dave
i think the idea is great but to judge the people on thier experience is hard to tell. if the idea of number of fish chat or posting are include in the measurement of the person experience, i will not meet that requirment for sure. the language is a huge barrier for me and also it takes me forever to post plus some spelling check (which will be wrong anyway) so i prefer reading than writing and that's why most of the people don't know me for sure. however, i choose to search for the information i don't know through search function instead of posting a new topic. i am a big fan of zebra for a long time but still don't have enough money to buy a group of breeding. most of the time, i am hanging out on this website and read through all of the information on breeding section, tank setup, general fish chat, stimulating a raining season, hardness of water and many many more. i am also intersting on practicing (guessing) the fish gender. basicly, i read almost all topic in most of the forum. however, the price of zebra is so crazy here. it takes 3 months+ for me to get only an 2 iches fry(male)... which arrive 2 weeks ago. right now i am looking for the reasonable price of fry to start my colonies. as i am a college student, i don't have a lot of cash to spend but most basicly goes to the equipment that i am prepairing for the benefit of my future group.
lastly, i love to post for some questions but since i only have one fry so not much problem to ask for. i love to start a colony and face some problem on breeding so if anyone would love to sell me a group of reasonable fry, i promise to take a good care of them and will often up date them on this website. however, if someone is so kind, please tell me the price i need to pay so that i will start collecting money to make my dream comes true!
ps. don't know what to post becuase all the answers already here in every forum and since i don't have agroup of breeding so not much complicate thing for me ask.
lastly, i love to post for some questions but since i only have one fry so not much problem to ask for. i love to start a colony and face some problem on breeding so if anyone would love to sell me a group of reasonable fry, i promise to take a good care of them and will often up date them on this website. however, if someone is so kind, please tell me the price i need to pay so that i will start collecting money to make my dream comes true!
ps. don't know what to post becuase all the answers already here in every forum and since i don't have agroup of breeding so not much complicate thing for me ask.
-
madmoroccan
- Obsessed!!
- Posts: 323
- Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:21 pm
- Location: Hertfordshire, UK
So far the posts are mainly by people who "want" zebras... There aren't many people breeding indicating their interest.
Could it really be true that most breeders don't want to forfeit their profits for the sake of species?
@Barbie...
You are not obliged to be nice to people who pester you for zebs... You could choose to ignore PMs from those people could you not?
Could it really be true that most breeders don't want to forfeit their profits for the sake of species?
@Barbie...
You are not obliged to be nice to people who pester you for zebs... You could choose to ignore PMs from those people could you not?
[img]http://www.geocities.com/madmoroccan/zebcam.jpg[/img]
Hi again
As you probably know I have strong opinions on many things, and it seems that people are showing an interest in this thread.
Some of things stated so far I have agreed with, some I have disagreed with.
I have been a culprit in the past, if it develops down to a personal level it achieves nothing, prevents the less robust amongst us expressing their opinion for fear of reprisal.
The motives of people being members of this site are wide and varied and should be respected.
Theoretically there is an argument for selling the fish at the highest price possible and reinvesting this in Zebras at the prices they are being advertised at the moment.
While Barbie and myself often disagree, and in reality I can create an argument if there is nobody else present, even I can't question her contribution her motivation and the benefits she provides to this site.
Dave
Some of things stated so far I have agreed with, some I have disagreed with.
I have been a culprit in the past, if it develops down to a personal level it achieves nothing, prevents the less robust amongst us expressing their opinion for fear of reprisal.
The motives of people being members of this site are wide and varied and should be respected.
Theoretically there is an argument for selling the fish at the highest price possible and reinvesting this in Zebras at the prices they are being advertised at the moment.
While Barbie and myself often disagree, and in reality I can create an argument if there is nobody else present, even I can't question her contribution her motivation and the benefits she provides to this site.
Dave
-
madmoroccan
- Obsessed!!
- Posts: 323
- Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:21 pm
- Location: Hertfordshire, UK
No, I can't just ignore the pm's. I'm sure I've missed a few in the confusion that's been my life the last couple months but I don't intentionally ignore anyone. Most people DO just let it go and those are the ones that actually get added to my list of people to contact when I have fry available. People that expect me to pack my bags for a long guilt trip are going to end up with a much longer wait. I appreciate the enthusiasm but it's very hard on me to have to refuse, let alone actually have to get rude about it to get the point across.
I'd love to help everyone in the world. I can't. I figured that out when I was about 13 years old. From there, it's just the task of figuring out who I'll help and who I won't that can occasionally suck. I think that most people that are raising zebra fry and genuinely benefitting their conservation don't feel that they need to pat themselves on the back and tell the world about it. Just knowing they're doing it might be enough.
And Dave and Mad, if you two go at it in this thread I'm going to personally find a way to get overseas to kick you both in the keester. I swear! Play nice, dammit!
Agree to disagree or something :p!
Barbie
I'd love to help everyone in the world. I can't. I figured that out when I was about 13 years old. From there, it's just the task of figuring out who I'll help and who I won't that can occasionally suck. I think that most people that are raising zebra fry and genuinely benefitting their conservation don't feel that they need to pat themselves on the back and tell the world about it. Just knowing they're doing it might be enough.
And Dave and Mad, if you two go at it in this thread I'm going to personally find a way to get overseas to kick you both in the keester. I swear! Play nice, dammit!
Agree to disagree or something :p!Barbie
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-
madmoroccan
- Obsessed!!
- Posts: 323
- Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 6:21 pm
- Location: Hertfordshire, UK
@barbie
I wasn't suggesting that you be rude to people... Au contriare! You save yourself a lot of agonising if you don't build a rappor with someone.
And I don't think there was any danger of all out war breaking out between me and Dave. I don't see the point... This topic is far too important to let personal feelings get in the way.
Back to the topic...
Is there anything that would make this scheme more attractive to breeders?
My reasoning is; that if breeders made suggestions as to what would make them take part... Then we may have more people intrested in taking part.
I wasn't suggesting that you be rude to people... Au contriare! You save yourself a lot of agonising if you don't build a rappor with someone.
And I don't think there was any danger of all out war breaking out between me and Dave. I don't see the point... This topic is far too important to let personal feelings get in the way.
Back to the topic...
Is there anything that would make this scheme more attractive to breeders?
My reasoning is; that if breeders made suggestions as to what would make them take part... Then we may have more people intrested in taking part.
[img]http://www.geocities.com/madmoroccan/zebcam.jpg[/img]
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TwoTankAmin
- Moderator
- Posts: 1254
- Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:16 am
- Location: Westchester Co., NY
There may be two distinct types of breeders- those who do it strictly for profit vs those who do it because of a dedication to helping to keep the species alive. In either case most, if not all of them, have one thing in common. Both have probably shelled out a substantianal amount of money to acquire their breeding stock. They took on a lot of risk in the process.
1. The risk of getting unhealthy fish.
2. The risk of having even healthy stock die for any number of reasons.
3. The risk they will never spawn.
4. The risks surrounding having eggs not hatch, fry not survive etc.
5. The risk they may stop spawning once they start.
For taking on all these risks as well as shelling out the substantial cost, there needs to be some sort of reward. Sure if I were a multi-millionaire dedicated to preserving endangered species, I would have no qualms about the money. But my name isn't Bill Gates.
Further, nobody wants to be taken advantage of. Why should I let out cheap zebras only to have the recipient double or tripple the price and pocket the profits that I have forgone? I would have no problems swapping fish with other breeders in order to benefit the gene pool- but then I am not really risking anything as zebras out = zebras in.
I have been very very lucky with mine. I got great fish at at good price and was lucky enough to have them start to spawn almost as soon as they hit my tank. I am now raising a bunch of fry and am continuing to get spawns. In a few months I will be in a position to begin selling. I find myself torn between the desire to get my cash back and the desire to do my part in insuring these wonderful fish don't vanish from the planet.
The scheme I outlined in this thread seemed to me to be a good compromise. However, even at a discounted price for some deserving folks, the price tag is beyond many fishkeepers and I only know a few folks who I am sure deserve to get get my fish based on their experience and dedication level. I also have more fish than such "qualified" buyers will take
Unlike other posters I am unwilling to let out my fish and have the recipient hit the jackpot reselling them. I am not willing to be taken advantage of this way. So exactly what do you suggest that would work in this respect?
I feel I need to approach this in a way that meets both my goals. I need to sell some of my fish in the open market for top dollar in order to help recoup my investment. Then I need to sell some, even if at disounted prices, to insure they get into the hands of folks who I firmly believe will keep them and hopefully breed them.
I am open to any ideas that will work to meet the two goals.
1. The risk of getting unhealthy fish.
2. The risk of having even healthy stock die for any number of reasons.
3. The risk they will never spawn.
4. The risks surrounding having eggs not hatch, fry not survive etc.
5. The risk they may stop spawning once they start.
For taking on all these risks as well as shelling out the substantial cost, there needs to be some sort of reward. Sure if I were a multi-millionaire dedicated to preserving endangered species, I would have no qualms about the money. But my name isn't Bill Gates.
Further, nobody wants to be taken advantage of. Why should I let out cheap zebras only to have the recipient double or tripple the price and pocket the profits that I have forgone? I would have no problems swapping fish with other breeders in order to benefit the gene pool- but then I am not really risking anything as zebras out = zebras in.
I have been very very lucky with mine. I got great fish at at good price and was lucky enough to have them start to spawn almost as soon as they hit my tank. I am now raising a bunch of fry and am continuing to get spawns. In a few months I will be in a position to begin selling. I find myself torn between the desire to get my cash back and the desire to do my part in insuring these wonderful fish don't vanish from the planet.
The scheme I outlined in this thread seemed to me to be a good compromise. However, even at a discounted price for some deserving folks, the price tag is beyond many fishkeepers and I only know a few folks who I am sure deserve to get get my fish based on their experience and dedication level. I also have more fish than such "qualified" buyers will take
Unlike other posters I am unwilling to let out my fish and have the recipient hit the jackpot reselling them. I am not willing to be taken advantage of this way. So exactly what do you suggest that would work in this respect?
I feel I need to approach this in a way that meets both my goals. I need to sell some of my fish in the open market for top dollar in order to help recoup my investment. Then I need to sell some, even if at disounted prices, to insure they get into the hands of folks who I firmly believe will keep them and hopefully breed them.
I am open to any ideas that will work to meet the two goals.
What makes the common person uncommon is common sense.
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NetsuaiAngel
- Obsessed!!
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:04 am
- Location: Las Vegas, NV - USA
I'm one of those with a group that is growing and I don't need to toot my horn to the public.
I agree that this is really the breeder's responsibility and it's their choice on who to give out and who not to receive their fry. Dave, I understand your intent and I agree that it's a good intent. Though the execution of this would be difficult.
@Barbie
You answer every PM? That's very kind of you.
Personally, I like TTA's theory. There's always going to be a risk of people lying and are in the market for profit.
If mine do spawn (crossing my fingers). Then I'll take the time and see what I want to do with the fry and will probably be PMing breeders for advice.
Maybe I'll do my own lotto and create my own "evite" site, emailing those who are interested and just randomly picking two or three for a free fry. I'm sure it'll make evite a happy website (j/k!).
- Angela
I agree that this is really the breeder's responsibility and it's their choice on who to give out and who not to receive their fry. Dave, I understand your intent and I agree that it's a good intent. Though the execution of this would be difficult.
@Barbie
You answer every PM? That's very kind of you.
Personally, I like TTA's theory. There's always going to be a risk of people lying and are in the market for profit.
If mine do spawn (crossing my fingers). Then I'll take the time and see what I want to do with the fry and will probably be PMing breeders for advice.
Maybe I'll do my own lotto and create my own "evite" site, emailing those who are interested and just randomly picking two or three for a free fry. I'm sure it'll make evite a happy website (j/k!).
- Angela
