Sorry to post again.
Well there is a guy called Dukerider on Plecofanatics, trying to sort somebody out with an L46, who actually states that they have no intention of breeding this fish.
While it is up to the individuals what they do with their fish, rumour has it that it's somebody on this site trying to offer advice and trying to advance the captive breeding programme.
While I may be misinterpreting the post, or more may be going on, I don't know.
There are members of this site crying out for fish with the intention of breeding them.
Any thoughts welcome.
Dave
Hi
Dave, noone asked you to stop posting, please, seriously, there's no call for martyrdom here.
Posting a link to the thread you're referring to would probably make a drastic difference for the people trying to figure out exactly what you're talking about, also...
Barbie
Posting a link to the thread you're referring to would probably make a drastic difference for the people trying to figure out exactly what you're talking about, also...
Barbie
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QueenDustBunny
- Forum Follower
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Breeding
When I made the decision to get these little beauties, I had given zero thought into breeding them. They started out as adorable little fish for my tank. After reading alot of posts here and the articles, I changed my mind entirely. Now I'm in the process of making a ZP-only tank and making it beeding friendly. I realize that it may take 2 years or more before I get a spawn, I am in no hurry. (With fingers crossed) I should get my first ZP next month.
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Plastic Mac
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Hi Dave,
I am Dukerider...and I never stated I would sell him fish. I simply, after having been asked twice by him in two hours on two different forums decided to at least send him a pm so we can discuss the matter further rather than me being pestered by him from forum to forum.
I have not agreed nor stated at any point that I would sell him fish, it was simply a possibility...I do not particualrly like being pestered by people as I go from forum to forum. Therefore I told him I would send him a pm so I can discuss it with him privately.
To be honest, I'm really not sure what business it is of yours how I conduct myself on a particular forum and quite resent the idea that because I'd rather have discussions with him privatley rather than openly on the forum that you've now come to the conclusion I must be up to something.
After having had discussions with him...and he's now knows the price I intend to sell them for, he's asked me for more than his initial 1 fish. I guess I was wrong to potentially give someone else the idea that they might be able to afford and breed this fish also?
On a final note, I would say...and I really don't think any of this is your business to be honest, but about half of my fry are already assigned to people who I've known would like the chance to try and breed these fish for a long time and the other half will go to members of zp. Each and every person who I have spoken to, including a guy from south africa who is asking for 4, I either have or intend to request the following:
Pics of the tank set-up
Any breeding expereience and general fishkeeping experience.
and that they become a member of zp.
If there is anything else you and the zebra police would like to know please feel free to pm me.
Plastic Mac
I am Dukerider...and I never stated I would sell him fish. I simply, after having been asked twice by him in two hours on two different forums decided to at least send him a pm so we can discuss the matter further rather than me being pestered by him from forum to forum.
I have not agreed nor stated at any point that I would sell him fish, it was simply a possibility...I do not particualrly like being pestered by people as I go from forum to forum. Therefore I told him I would send him a pm so I can discuss it with him privately.
To be honest, I'm really not sure what business it is of yours how I conduct myself on a particular forum and quite resent the idea that because I'd rather have discussions with him privatley rather than openly on the forum that you've now come to the conclusion I must be up to something.
After having had discussions with him...and he's now knows the price I intend to sell them for, he's asked me for more than his initial 1 fish. I guess I was wrong to potentially give someone else the idea that they might be able to afford and breed this fish also?
On a final note, I would say...and I really don't think any of this is your business to be honest, but about half of my fry are already assigned to people who I've known would like the chance to try and breed these fish for a long time and the other half will go to members of zp. Each and every person who I have spoken to, including a guy from south africa who is asking for 4, I either have or intend to request the following:
Pics of the tank set-up
Any breeding expereience and general fishkeeping experience.
and that they become a member of zp.
If there is anything else you and the zebra police would like to know please feel free to pm me.
Plastic Mac
Hi Again
Hi Plastic Mac and Barbie
First of all I would hardly call it the ZP Police, stating something that is public in another forum.
In addition I did have a feeling that Dukerider and Plastic Mac were one and the same, but wasn't sure, hence the wording of my post.
The emphasis being on misinterpretation and more to this story than meets the eye.
But lets take the scenario that they are not the same person, there are many long standing members of this site struggling to get stock, all I was doing was pointing people in the direction of somebody who might be able to help.
And Barbie, martyrdom is not really an issue.
Some of the threads that I have been involved in have become somewhat heated, and as Rob pointed out this may prevent some members from posting and discourage new members from joining, and I have to agree with this.
I have beaten the same drums for a period of time now, and there is such a thing as diminishing returns, and I feel little is to be gained by continuing in this vein.
Guess I am getting on with the serious business of breeding the fish and getting them out there so other people can get involved on a practical level rather than just be an observer.
Dave
First of all I would hardly call it the ZP Police, stating something that is public in another forum.
In addition I did have a feeling that Dukerider and Plastic Mac were one and the same, but wasn't sure, hence the wording of my post.
The emphasis being on misinterpretation and more to this story than meets the eye.
But lets take the scenario that they are not the same person, there are many long standing members of this site struggling to get stock, all I was doing was pointing people in the direction of somebody who might be able to help.
And Barbie, martyrdom is not really an issue.
Some of the threads that I have been involved in have become somewhat heated, and as Rob pointed out this may prevent some members from posting and discourage new members from joining, and I have to agree with this.
I have beaten the same drums for a period of time now, and there is such a thing as diminishing returns, and I feel little is to be gained by continuing in this vein.
Guess I am getting on with the serious business of breeding the fish and getting them out there so other people can get involved on a practical level rather than just be an observer.
Dave
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Plastic Mac
- Mentally Certified!
- Posts: 725
- Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:23 pm
- Location: Hertfordshire, UK
Hi Dave,
Thanks for your response. I must say I think it would have been much easier if you were trying to be helpful to either:
Have just pm'd me asking if I had fry for sale, was I a member of zp and if not was I prepared to offer fry to members of zp.
Or just informed people here that someone maybe had fry for sale and 'here's the thread, no harm getting in touch with him etc'...
I hope that the answers I have now given have cleared up the 'mystery' to a satisfactory conclusion for you. I am Dukerider (something I have never hidden btw), I do have fry, and yes I did speak to the person who originally asked the question and if I decide to sell him fry after any other discussions then that will be my chioce to do so. Rest assured though, the members of zp who are after stock, at the time I sell them will have the opportunity to buy them...it wouldn't make sense not to
Plastic Mac
Thanks for your response. I must say I think it would have been much easier if you were trying to be helpful to either:
Have just pm'd me asking if I had fry for sale, was I a member of zp and if not was I prepared to offer fry to members of zp.
Or just informed people here that someone maybe had fry for sale and 'here's the thread, no harm getting in touch with him etc'...
I hope that the answers I have now given have cleared up the 'mystery' to a satisfactory conclusion for you. I am Dukerider (something I have never hidden btw), I do have fry, and yes I did speak to the person who originally asked the question and if I decide to sell him fry after any other discussions then that will be my chioce to do so. Rest assured though, the members of zp who are after stock, at the time I sell them will have the opportunity to buy them...it wouldn't make sense not to
Plastic Mac
Hello,
I have been an active member of the zp for some time now and have know Rob for several years. I states Robs name for a reason and will come back to this shortly.
There are several threads that have of late become very heated and can I say politely very opinoinated.
I first got hold of these fish seven years ago when they were quite pricey fish. No intention whatsoever to breed them, until over the years they became harder to come by and I had aquired several more.
My first thought was the challenge not the burning desire to help an endangered species as I was not aware of many successful captive breeding plans.
I am fortunate as I have several fry over twelve months and recently I contacted two of my local fish shops to see if they wanted to trade as I need to feed, keep equipment up to date etc.
Now one shop said quite honestly that the fish is out of their scope and that they would not want to take them off my hands. Another said that they were only worth £5-£10.
I will be honest with every zp member here and say my aim is to build a fish house and try to breed several species of plecs (hopefully one day blue eyed plecs, (though need two fish first!)
So I will actively offer my fish to people on this site. I dont expect everyone to want them for a breeding program but surely the second best thing to this is giving people the pleasure of this fishes beauty. I defy anybody who after keeping one doesnt get the urge to buy another and consider trying their hand at breeding.
You will find that the cost of these fish being so high that no one has the intention not trying to breed. If their other motive is to store for a few years and sell for a profit at a later date then they are wasting there time.
I also intend swaping fish with a member of this site to try and avoid interbreeding. and continue to breed these lovely fish
Rob set this site up after he became hooked managed to breed these gems and then wanted to share it with the world. Not for profit, no benefit just pride in his acheivement and to give a helping hand to others (Hope that is an honest reflection)
An increasing number of us now are successfully breeding these fish, which was our aim and our goal. Not one of us knows what the others circumstances are, not one of us knows what the others long term aims are.
If we sell for profit, if we intertrade or sell to fellow members we are acheiving our goal. Making more fish available in the open market
Remember why we are memebers because we all love this fish, but also remember that we should all have respect to one another and the decisions we take.
I have tried very hard in this very long thread not to alienate anybody or single anyone out. I just wanted to try and get people to take a step back and see things from a different perspective.
Lets get back to talking about the fish and some success stories.
I have been an active member of the zp for some time now and have know Rob for several years. I states Robs name for a reason and will come back to this shortly.
There are several threads that have of late become very heated and can I say politely very opinoinated.
I first got hold of these fish seven years ago when they were quite pricey fish. No intention whatsoever to breed them, until over the years they became harder to come by and I had aquired several more.
My first thought was the challenge not the burning desire to help an endangered species as I was not aware of many successful captive breeding plans.
I am fortunate as I have several fry over twelve months and recently I contacted two of my local fish shops to see if they wanted to trade as I need to feed, keep equipment up to date etc.
Now one shop said quite honestly that the fish is out of their scope and that they would not want to take them off my hands. Another said that they were only worth £5-£10.
I will be honest with every zp member here and say my aim is to build a fish house and try to breed several species of plecs (hopefully one day blue eyed plecs, (though need two fish first!)
So I will actively offer my fish to people on this site. I dont expect everyone to want them for a breeding program but surely the second best thing to this is giving people the pleasure of this fishes beauty. I defy anybody who after keeping one doesnt get the urge to buy another and consider trying their hand at breeding.
You will find that the cost of these fish being so high that no one has the intention not trying to breed. If their other motive is to store for a few years and sell for a profit at a later date then they are wasting there time.
I also intend swaping fish with a member of this site to try and avoid interbreeding. and continue to breed these lovely fish
Rob set this site up after he became hooked managed to breed these gems and then wanted to share it with the world. Not for profit, no benefit just pride in his acheivement and to give a helping hand to others (Hope that is an honest reflection)
An increasing number of us now are successfully breeding these fish, which was our aim and our goal. Not one of us knows what the others circumstances are, not one of us knows what the others long term aims are.
If we sell for profit, if we intertrade or sell to fellow members we are acheiving our goal. Making more fish available in the open market
Remember why we are memebers because we all love this fish, but also remember that we should all have respect to one another and the decisions we take.
I have tried very hard in this very long thread not to alienate anybody or single anyone out. I just wanted to try and get people to take a step back and see things from a different perspective.
Lets get back to talking about the fish and some success stories.
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discusbabe
- Obsessed!!
- Posts: 229
- Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 10:39 am
- Location: Derbyshire, UK
Almost in agreement
As I started the thread, and probably been the cause of some of the heated discussions.
Yet again I commend Rob for creating this site, showing us all the way on how to breed this fish. Hopefully in the next few years the number born in captivity will reduce the demand on the remaining wild stock to zero.
And yes, I am opinionated, beat the same drum, and believe L46's should be available for all, but as you advised I am taking a step back.
Back in 1996 when I first kept this fish, 3 in fact it was decorative ornament to a community tank. It is a gorgeous looking fish.
I have also kept lots of other fish just for looks over the last 40 years and may I say not in ideal conditions.
When I started keeping fish, there was an endless supply, the world was a different place, no problems in Columbia hence you could have got your blue eyed plec.
In my mind there are two sides to ornamental fish keeping, whatever the species. I see very little wrong with people keeping the monsters, Red Tailed Cats for example, as long as it doesn't have an adverse affect on the wild population, the same also applies to small fish.
Again I'll commend this site, many small plecs of different species have been born on the back of this site as well as other catfish sites.
Now here comes my slight bone of contention, L46's plus other small plecos, their habits are well documented on here, ideally no tank mates, or very carefully selected tank mates. Species tanks only.
So wherever possible we should aim to breed, or if keeping an animal of any kind be aware of it's vulnerability in it's natural state.
The above is my opinion, and I understand other people may think differently, but combining all the stances it may move L46's and other Plecs forward.
Dave
Yet again I commend Rob for creating this site, showing us all the way on how to breed this fish. Hopefully in the next few years the number born in captivity will reduce the demand on the remaining wild stock to zero.
And yes, I am opinionated, beat the same drum, and believe L46's should be available for all, but as you advised I am taking a step back.
Back in 1996 when I first kept this fish, 3 in fact it was decorative ornament to a community tank. It is a gorgeous looking fish.
I have also kept lots of other fish just for looks over the last 40 years and may I say not in ideal conditions.
When I started keeping fish, there was an endless supply, the world was a different place, no problems in Columbia hence you could have got your blue eyed plec.
In my mind there are two sides to ornamental fish keeping, whatever the species. I see very little wrong with people keeping the monsters, Red Tailed Cats for example, as long as it doesn't have an adverse affect on the wild population, the same also applies to small fish.
Again I'll commend this site, many small plecs of different species have been born on the back of this site as well as other catfish sites.
Now here comes my slight bone of contention, L46's plus other small plecos, their habits are well documented on here, ideally no tank mates, or very carefully selected tank mates. Species tanks only.
So wherever possible we should aim to breed, or if keeping an animal of any kind be aware of it's vulnerability in it's natural state.
The above is my opinion, and I understand other people may think differently, but combining all the stances it may move L46's and other Plecs forward.
Dave
