Thanks for the invite, maybe one day.
Also thank you for your in depth answers
I am not an arbitrator of this site, and I'll admit have fallen foul of the regulations of this site at times, also have opinions that differ to many on this site, (one being that I use undergravel filtration in L46 breeding tanks) many of which have been posted and remain posted.
In addition what I have found, nobody actually claims to know everything about this fish, it is a general pooling of knowledge. In addition it shows that breeding not only L46's but other LNo's is not only possible, but likely not only to the so called expert but the general hobbyist as well.
As for personal attacks on individuals (here again I have been guilty, my posts were removed), my incident got a little out of hand and achieved nothing.
In support of Rob, Mceve and Barbie a site has been set up and controlled concentrating more information on L46's than anywhere else I know.
I also understand that this site has to be paid for.
I too when I joined had some of your doubts, but the more you put into something the more you can get out of it.
Perhaps a positive input would be to post some of the pictures you took of the collecting area on this site, just a thought.
Take care
Dave
Take care
rival for the zebra
i went with neil to brazil, now i dont work for him im just a lucky bugger who managed to get on the trip. the last time the zeb's got disscused and the topic got a bit tasty/heated it got bannad just like the zeb's, i think it was cos someone was takin deposit's on something they thought they were gona get 
. The thing is everyone think's they are an expert because they've bred or keep pleco's, when the main point is they where banned for a reason, and neil's question (who decide's who should get some for scientific purposes) i think is a perfectly good one, IMO . It just seem's Barbie that you like to put your IMO's on thing's but when it's bounced back at you, you start throwing the rule's around and blocking stuff. Now this site is supposed to be about L-46 and me and neil have been where they live, and spoken to load's of exporter's and fisherman in Altamira and Belem so without bein big headed we have a beter understanding than most people, but every time we voice our IMO's we get BANNED.
Kev
. The thing is everyone think's they are an expert because they've bred or keep pleco's, when the main point is they where banned for a reason, and neil's question (who decide's who should get some for scientific purposes) i think is a perfectly good one, IMO . It just seem's Barbie that you like to put your IMO's on thing's but when it's bounced back at you, you start throwing the rule's around and blocking stuff. Now this site is supposed to be about L-46 and me and neil have been where they live, and spoken to load's of exporter's and fisherman in Altamira and Belem so without bein big headed we have a beter understanding than most people, but every time we voice our IMO's we get BANNED.Kev
Im off to the Xingu put my dinner in the oven!!!
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NetsuaiAngel
- Obsessed!!
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:04 am
- Location: Las Vegas, NV - USA
I'm sorry but this entire topic has gone off topic.
Instead of attacking a specfic person, perhaps you should take a step back and look at your approach towards this 'touchy' subject. There is a diplomatic and polite way to discus EVERYONE's IMOs, but HOW you deliver your IMO and when you start pointing fingers, you start making things personal and illogical.
For example, I agree there is a grey area between who is allowed to have certain things and who isn't. I agree this is going to be a touchy subject. What I don't agree is the belligerent tone in these posts against a single person. People are allowed to have their own IMO and can be very passionate about them.
IMO I do not see a logical connection in your argument. I do not see HOW you could have a better understanding about zebras just because you've been to their habitat and have spoken with fishermen and other exportors. That's like saying I have a better understanding on cars because I sell them and I've visited every car manufacturing site. No relevance.
And honesty, I highly doubt anyone on this board or in the world would call themselves an expert on anything because in reality you could never know everything about one thing. There's always something to learn about.
- Angela
Instead of attacking a specfic person, perhaps you should take a step back and look at your approach towards this 'touchy' subject. There is a diplomatic and polite way to discus EVERYONE's IMOs, but HOW you deliver your IMO and when you start pointing fingers, you start making things personal and illogical.
For example, I agree there is a grey area between who is allowed to have certain things and who isn't. I agree this is going to be a touchy subject. What I don't agree is the belligerent tone in these posts against a single person. People are allowed to have their own IMO and can be very passionate about them.
IMO I do not see a logical connection in your argument. I do not see HOW you could have a better understanding about zebras just because you've been to their habitat and have spoken with fishermen and other exportors. That's like saying I have a better understanding on cars because I sell them and I've visited every car manufacturing site. No relevance.
And honesty, I highly doubt anyone on this board or in the world would call themselves an expert on anything because in reality you could never know everything about one thing. There's always something to learn about.
- Angela
Hi
Well first of all and this is my opinion.
Visiting an area is likely to give you an insight into an area and an idea of the status of the fish in the wild, especially after speaking to the collectors. Dan Machado a Brazilian Biologist who has posted on Planet Catfish also advocates leaving the Wild Fish alone, he has also posted the list of banned Brazilian fish.
As for conservation ( One of the purposes of this site ) what levels of expertise do any of us have?
I have donated some of my young L46's to Chester Zoo and as different blood lines breed I will be donating more. They do not import wild fish, though they can for scientific purposes. Now in my mind at Chester Zoo there is a level of expertise on Conservation that outstrips the combined knowledge of all the contributers of this site.
An opinion only.
Dave
Visiting an area is likely to give you an insight into an area and an idea of the status of the fish in the wild, especially after speaking to the collectors. Dan Machado a Brazilian Biologist who has posted on Planet Catfish also advocates leaving the Wild Fish alone, he has also posted the list of banned Brazilian fish.
As for conservation ( One of the purposes of this site ) what levels of expertise do any of us have?
I have donated some of my young L46's to Chester Zoo and as different blood lines breed I will be donating more. They do not import wild fish, though they can for scientific purposes. Now in my mind at Chester Zoo there is a level of expertise on Conservation that outstrips the combined knowledge of all the contributers of this site.
An opinion only.
Dave
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NetsuaiAngel
- Obsessed!!
- Posts: 211
- Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:04 am
- Location: Las Vegas, NV - USA
Pay attention to this, very well said:
This is going to be a friendly forum where we will try to learn as much as possible about L46, hopefully for the benefit for the fish. I don't think we can leave it to Chester Zoo alone to preserve the fish.
I'll close this thread now, as hopefully everybody has had their say. Keep in mind that people don't get banned for having an opinion. They do get banned for breaking the rules.
I'll include the link to the rules for your convinence:
http://www.zebrapleco.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=732
It's not easy to get 500 people to like eachother, but you don't have to. However you do have to be civil to all of them, which didn't happen in the thread that was closed.NetsuaiAngel wrote: Instead of attacking a specfic person, perhaps you should take a step back and look at your approach towards this 'touchy' subject. There is a diplomatic and polite way to discus EVERYONE's IMOs, but HOW you deliver your IMO and when you start pointing fingers, you start making things personal and illogical.
This is going to be a friendly forum where we will try to learn as much as possible about L46, hopefully for the benefit for the fish. I don't think we can leave it to Chester Zoo alone to preserve the fish.
I'll close this thread now, as hopefully everybody has had their say. Keep in mind that people don't get banned for having an opinion. They do get banned for breaking the rules.
I'll include the link to the rules for your convinence:
http://www.zebrapleco.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=732
Good morning everyone and thank you to everyone thathas tried to keep this topic civil in my absence.
Thank you McEve for locking this topic, I support you 100% in your descision to do so.
I would like to take this opportunity to say something that has been on my mind for some time now and I will be placing in an announcement later this week.
Zebrapleco.com welcomes personal opinions and we also welcome to a degree "heated debates". However these must be done in such a way that they do not degrade in to personal attacks or insults.
Over recent months I have noticed a great deal of argueing and personal attacks on the forum that I feel is innappropriate on an "informative forum". I find this quite disheartening as it goes against everything I feel the forum should be.
As McEve and others have stated, there is a diplomatic may of saying everything, and we should think carefully about what we say before posting.
As the numbers increase it will become more and more difficult to monitor , moderate, and keep everyone happy. Which is why the rules are in place.
If we allow the forum to be a "Free-for-all", within a very short period of time the useful information will become hidden amongst irrelevant posts, and therefore the site will be pointless.
It takes a great deal of time and effort from all the mods, (of whom I support 100%), to keep this site going. It becomes frustrating when we need to spend all of our time on the forum "policing it" as opposed to getting involved with discusions about the zebra. Whic is obviosuly what the site is about!!!
When I started this site, the sole intention was provide a source of information for people as passionate about zebras as myself. As the site has increased and the number of breeders increased, so have opinions and of course the pool of resourceful information. This can only be a ghood thing for the zebra.
As has also been said, the zebra is not an exact science, and there is nobody here who has the ultimate knowledge, we are all still learning. We welcome new ideas and opinions but lets refrain from personal attacks.
thank you
rob
Thank you McEve for locking this topic, I support you 100% in your descision to do so.
I would like to take this opportunity to say something that has been on my mind for some time now and I will be placing in an announcement later this week.
Zebrapleco.com welcomes personal opinions and we also welcome to a degree "heated debates". However these must be done in such a way that they do not degrade in to personal attacks or insults.
Over recent months I have noticed a great deal of argueing and personal attacks on the forum that I feel is innappropriate on an "informative forum". I find this quite disheartening as it goes against everything I feel the forum should be.
As McEve and others have stated, there is a diplomatic may of saying everything, and we should think carefully about what we say before posting.
As the numbers increase it will become more and more difficult to monitor , moderate, and keep everyone happy. Which is why the rules are in place.
If we allow the forum to be a "Free-for-all", within a very short period of time the useful information will become hidden amongst irrelevant posts, and therefore the site will be pointless.
It takes a great deal of time and effort from all the mods, (of whom I support 100%), to keep this site going. It becomes frustrating when we need to spend all of our time on the forum "policing it" as opposed to getting involved with discusions about the zebra. Whic is obviosuly what the site is about!!!
When I started this site, the sole intention was provide a source of information for people as passionate about zebras as myself. As the site has increased and the number of breeders increased, so have opinions and of course the pool of resourceful information. This can only be a ghood thing for the zebra.
As has also been said, the zebra is not an exact science, and there is nobody here who has the ultimate knowledge, we are all still learning. We welcome new ideas and opinions but lets refrain from personal attacks.
thank you
rob
The perfect white lie..."Of course I didn't pay that much for the fish honey"
