To split the group or not - will several breed in the same t

INXS · Post by **INXS** » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:24 pm

So the same male was just holed up in the same cave - I am sitting on my hands (as was reccommended

) and I try to not let him catch me even looking at the tank.

As I'm doing this I noticed that there are a number of zebras occupyin caves - probably 5-6 and a few others holed up under logs and what not. There seems to be a little activity around some of the caves where the males ar waving tails and what I think are females are coming to look, sometimes they get waved away and other times the male leaves the cave and goes chasing after the female. Most of the fish are well conditioned and the caves are nice but there is no "action".

Do you think it will increase the chance of having another pair spawn if I remove the pair when they go into the cave next time so the (my assumption) dominant male no longer is present?

Will it matter?
Does the breeding from one pair affect the other fish positivley and they get in the mood too?
Or will one breeder hinder the others?

alga · Post by **alga** » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:22 am

I have no idea who told you to sit on your hands

but what great advice

I personally would let this cycle of activity ride itself out and see what happens. If you end up with nothing then mix it up, as you suggested. On the flip side you could end up with a couple males spawning, if you interupt now you won't know. These are long-lived fish, you have time to "hand-sit".

Not fun advice.....I know...but its what I would do, fwiw.

INXS · Post by **INXS** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:21 pm

Thanks alga,

good advice but really really hard to follow

especially when typing on the keyboard - hey another use for my big nose

The main reason for my question was to find out if you would get any other successful spawning in a tank where there is a dominant fish already spawning or if it would keep all others from doing it?

My thoughts are to catch them the next time they are at it and remove them to another tank - that way I have the guaranteed breeding pair and let another male step up and try to get lucky.

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Thu Oct 13, 2005 3:55 pm

INXS wrote: My thoughts are to catch them the next time they are at it and remove them to another tank - that way I have the guaranteed breeding pair and let another male step up and try to get lucky.

My thoughts exactly - seemed like a good idea at the time and all that. It was not a success with my group, at all! I think the Zebra has a more intricate social system than we realize, and that all the individuals in a group have their place, and their role, to play.

Generally there will be only one alpha allowed to spawn in any group, but I have heard of people who's had more than one male spawning in the same tank, at the same time. I guess it all depends on how the tank is decorated, if they can find suitable domains.

If it was me? I'd leave them

INXS · Post by **INXS** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:13 am

McEve,
are you saying you tried it and it didn't work?

I was thinking exactly what you were writing and it seems like a shame to have all the zebras together if they get dominated by one alpha male as - especially mine - seem to have several larger fish that don't spawn.

This is why I wanted to know how it works for everyone else that has spawned them.
Thanks.

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:15 pm

INXS wrote:McEve,
are you saying you tried it and it didn't work?

Yes. After I split the group the beta male had a spawn with my best female (about 6 months later)- he wasn't up to the task, and 20 eggs were wasted. So the hierarky shifted, unknown for what reason the beta, who is much smaller than the alpha, had taken over, even though he clearly wasn't ready.

We have all now read of another case where there was two spawns in the same tank, so it does happen, no doubt abou that. The first one I mentioned wasn't Babries fish, but it happened to her as well. http://www.zebrapleco.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1168

I suggest keep sitting on your hands - I know I would have had I known what I now know

BUT, there are also reports of splitting out the spawning pair in their own tank. Apparently some people do it once a pair spawns and succeed in getting several pairs. I haven't been able to verify if this is facts or just a rumour though.

INXS · Post by **INXS** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 3:41 pm

McEve,

on the one hand I want to keep them spawning and let them be but on the other hand it would be interesting to see if one of the other fish can take over - as I mentioned there are several fish that are quite a bit larger then the spawning male.

For the interest of breeding them (I think at least) maybe we are stumbling onto another piece of the puzzle:

Think about it - people have mentioned the following:

"It appears that only about 25% of Zebras are able to reproduce"
And
"I finally put all my colonies of Zebras together after a long frustration - and suddenly they spawned" (I believe this scenario has happened to a number of people)

I also read about spawning behavior of certain river fish that head upstream and form large schools at spawning time.

SO - I think you may be right about the social hierarchy being needed McEve.

In looking at the limited data - it would seem like a good idea to take some grow outs and put them together with a few fully grown specimen to get another colony going - just thinking. By replacing the fully grown ones with some young ones you could then keep the colony happy.
Thoughts?

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:31 pm

INXS wrote: "It appears that only about 25% of Zebras are able to reproduce"
And
"I finally put all my colonies of Zebras together after a long frustration - and suddenly they spawned" (I believe this scenario has happened to a number of people)

yes, but is this due to the change in enviroment, water paramters, space so forth, or is it because they got the right combination of fish so that the hierachy puzzle suddenly fitted?

INXS wrote:In looking at the limited data - it would seem like a good idea to take some grow outs and put them together with a few fully grown specimen to get another colony going - just thinking. By replacing the fully grown ones with some young ones you could then keep the colony happy.

That's are major problem at this time. Limited data. And not all are conscientious enough in writing down what happens in their colonies, myself included I'm ashamed to admit.

I don't think it matters wether you replace the fish with growouts or adults, they will still need to form the hierarchy all over again. But I see where you're going with the thought, maybe the growouts will "grow into a role" easier than an adult? Is that what you mean? if so.. you might have a point.

Is time a factor here?

INXS · Post by **INXS** » Sat Oct 15, 2005 5:52 am

Nah, time is no factor

Yes, I am going in the " rebuild the hierarchy" route as it appears that a group does have positive influence on spawning. And yes ( though I hadn't thought of it myself) young animals may adapt into the group easier then older ones.

This is just thoughts based on my limited knowledge and from what I am reading from others.
And if I do get the opportunity I will give the theory a try.