Breeding Trio Sorted - Please Ignore

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:09 pm

I know I probably shouldn't vioce an opinion on his issue, as I live too far away to be able to particiapte. But anyho - some time back I arranged with a fellow aqauraist here in Norway that I could borrow his females, and see if I could breed them, he wasn't really all that interested in breeding this particular fish, so why not kind of thing.

Then it hits me, what if they die? Will the owner be able to see that this is one of those things than can happen? After all, they're worth quite a lot of money. And will I be able to relax and enjoy the fish, knowing it will affect more than me and the fish if something does go wrong?

Just look at what happened to Tom last week, lost 40+ fry in 4 days, ranging from 3 weeks old to 9 months old. Would the syndicate be able to think, tough luck, that happens?

Why make it so complicated? If you Eyeball_Paul, are serious about wanting to do good before cash, then pick somebody that you respect, know get good result from breeding them, and have good ethics, and sell them cheap to that person. Sell them cheap and ask that X amount of £ be donated to keep this site up and running for every fry sold for starters. Think big but consider where the ladder starts kinda thing.

Friendships and idealism all too often goes down the drain when there's money to be lost or gained....

Eyeball_Paul · Post by **Eyeball_Paul** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 8:25 pm

Having been a breeder for about 20 years I can see how such things can happen and I guess I am looking for someone who has at least my standards for care to avoid that but having made a choice, I would accept that sometimes you just can't help things like that, yet they've never happened to me, so it would be difficult too.

I should perhaps add why I am approaching it like this. My job is to see the commercial angle/investment in everything and exploit it. We own all sorts of businesses from web hosting to gas engineering businesses. As a result I'm difficult to convince about donating to keep a site going (I would be prepared to host any site on an unlimited basis for nothing more than a credit for the company if I felt it was helping, popular and non-commercial) and promises of people doing this or that etc. I've been round the block too many times.

I often give fish away rather than selling them for a better home, this one was just a bit more complicated.

If I knew someone I trusted to do what I wanted, this issue would never have arisen online. Maybe this is a way to start to get to know a few people and take it from there.

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:12 pm

Eyeball_Paul wrote: As a result I'm difficult to convince about donating to keep a site going

Sorry Eyeball_Paul, I know the quote gives the wrong impression of you mean when taken out like that.

I still did it, because I here see an opportunity to point out that this site is for the preservation of a fish that is endangered. The members are (I'd like to think so anyway) caring for, keeping, and with a lot of help from this site breeding this fish because they care, and not for making money on them.

Personally three spawns of Angels gave me more money than the Zebras have, simply because you get trillions Angels and they can be sold after only 3 months or less. Once you realize there might not be a money making machine here your past the first stage, and can start focus on their real worth.

Anyho, back to what I wanted to say - donations - It's not free to keep a site like this, and certainly not what it's going to be like, so I personally would like to see a large "Donate now" button somewhere easy to see.

I'm sure more people than I would like to chip in to give this site a future.

A donation now and then won't kill you, on the contrary, it might even make you feel good

Eyeball_Paul · Post by **Eyeball_Paul** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 9:28 pm

And I repeat, if you want to host this site absolutley free on an unlimited basis (with PHP and whatever else you need), I can arrange it - all you'll see is a small credit graphic somewhere and/or maybe a thanks post.

The company will take no ownership and will provide full and complete ftp access and php tools with no restrictions (as long as it doesn't turn into a site about something immoral) therefore nameservers could be changed immediately.

There's a donation for you.

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 10:09 pm

ahhh.. but that's not a donation. Zebrapleco wouldn't have their independence, but would be online at your grace all the time. That's not a donation

Giving money, or a fish, or whatever, with no strings attached, that's a donation

Eyeball_Paul · Post by **Eyeball_Paul** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:03 pm

Fair enough - that's the problem with IT people/forum owners - too many empires to keep hold of to realise a good deal when they see it (I did say totally independent) - hence my skepticism. I deal with the likes of this all the time, including hosting one of the biggest forums on fish in the world and it has nothing to do with my "grace", we are not an unprofessional outfit, we do what we say.

I'm not interested in anything other than helping out and you can't see that as you do not know me nor that it would be at my cost (it would cause my employees work for no reason other than it is an interest of mine), rather than my benefit to offer such a thing.

I rest my case about my zebs, you have sort of proved my point.

I'll deal with this away from this forum.

hamish99 · Post by **hamish99** » Sun Oct 02, 2005 11:39 pm

All im hearing is a lot of people saying money for this and money for that, ive just had to sell my car because im skint, I now take the bus but I still have all my zebs and most of my teeth, so for most people on this forum its about the fish not the money, but having a pound or two in return in you hobby is that such a bad thing, anyway if the L046 were worth say £15 it wouldn’t be such a big issue would it.

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:03 am

Eyeball_Paul wrote:Fair enough - that's the problem with IT people/forum owners - too many empires to keep hold of to realise a good deal when they see it

No. We were talking about donations. Hosting a site is not a donation. A donation is monetary or other support that is given, and cannot be taken back.

Hosting a site can be taken away at any time, you can simply turn off the server.

If you choose to take my arguments as a personal attack on your integrity then I'm very sorry about that. Fact remains that you yourself said it's not natural for you to give anything away for free. My intentions were not to dishearten you from doing something good for the Zebra, simply to put forward some problematic issues with the charity models outlined.

If I have offended you I apologize. That was in no way my intent. My intent was to outline some realisme into the discussions. You might have noticed that I did suggest some constructive input on how to do this if you are serious about wanting to make an effort for the preservation of the Zebra, on a non profit level.

hamish99 wrote: anyway if the L046 were worth say £15 it wouldn’t be such a big issue would it.

To me it would be. The existence of this fish is threathened. It doesn't matter to me if it costs £15 or £800. What matters is that this fish will still be around in 50 years.

Eyeball_Paul · Post by **Eyeball_Paul** » Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:31 am

[quote="McEve"]

No. We were talking about donations. Hosting a site is not a donation. A donation is monetary or other support that is given, and cannot be taken back.

Hosting a site can be taken away at any time, you [b]can [/b]simply turn off the server.

If you choose to take my arguments as a personal attack on your integrity then I'm very sorry about that. Fact remains that you yourself said it's not natural for you to give anything away for free. My intentions were not to dishearten you from doing something good for the Zebra, simply to put forward some problematic issues with the charity models outlined.

If I have offended you I apologize. That was in no way my intent. My intent was to outline some realisme into the discussions. You might have noticed that I did suggest some constructive input on how to do this if you are serious about wanting to make an effort for the preservation of the Zebra, on a non profit level.[/quote]

A simple professional response would have been just to say thanks but no thanks, rather than judge someone you don't know by what I must assume are your own standards.

We host some of the biggest sites in the world and are no tinpot outfit that could turn a server off if we got a bit sniffy about something. Perhaps context helps when informing or replying. For that I apologise.

I donate my time and expertise to other causes (modding on another board for example) rather than cash as you just don't know and trust if it would be used in the optimum manner - same here.

I appreciate your advice on charitable systems. I think we have something sorted now, at no cost to anyone.

Tom2600 · Post by **Tom2600** » Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:26 am

Its a shame to see things getting heated but it easily happens on the internet.

For what its worth I have briefly met Paul on two occasions and can say that he seems to be an honest chap who definitely has the best interests of fish at heart.

Cheers

Tom

Eyeball_Paul · Post by **Eyeball_Paul** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:10 am

Thanks for the vote of confidence Tom.

I didn't take offence at all and wasn't annoyed, rather more interested at the assumptions made about me. On our forum, we have such issues too, just not including moderators, we are there to present the level headed side, rather than provoke things (even unintentionally). The mods, whether they like it or not, set the tone of the forum and I ask if this is the tone wanted on a relatively new one.

All in the past now.

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:54 am

I can't see why this discussion would be percieved as heated. I surtainly didn't feel heated at any point, and if I at any pont came across as doubting that eyeball_Paul don't have the best interest for the fish at heart I apologize. I can't see that I did though.

I would also like to point out that I did come with a constructive suggestion on how eyeball_paul could easily solve his original intention for the fish in an easy way.

Anyway, I see the original issue is sorted which is good.