Firstly sorry for not posting here for a while but work has been rather time consuming recently.
I am currently working in a LFS and a friend who also managed another store brought the following information to my attention, knowing that I am a Zebra fan.
A month ago he was offered zebras for a silly price of £20 each in whatever volume he wanted which sounds great however...knowing that they have been banned he questioned the exporter as to how they were able to get hold of so many. The exporter was honest with him and it appears that large stockpiles of zebras where held when rumours of the ban began. These stockpiles have since been breed but to create such volumes and growth they have also been given hormones I am totally against this practice and that is why i am warning anyone who is offered "cheap" Zebras to be aware that they may not be getting what they think they are!
Out of curiousity I contacted the same exporter and was offered the same deal!
I wouldn't go so far as to deny that anyone might be doing this...in fact I'd be rather surprised if they weren't.
What I find strange is the fact that zebra's in their current situation can demand a high price tag. So why would anyone then go to the hassle of breeding large numbers of them, purchasing growth hormones and then trying to flood the market with extemely cheap inferior zebra's.
When they must know that they can make just as much money by selling a 5th of their stock at standard market price.
I'd compare it to a champagne seller who, when the demand for his product increases. Instead of raising the price to take advantage of the demand, instead decides to dilute his champange with water to increase the number of available bottles for sale but then decides to sell them for only a quarter of the price...On top of that he then decides to tell everyone what he's done. It just doesn't make much sense from a business point of view.
Where are they being exported from? If it's Singapore then it may well be true.
Why only £20 each? Surely they could get more.
Under no circumstances would I advocate hormone treatment to breed these fish and grow them on.
It also appears that there are more L46's available in Germany, they are known to have a Scientifc approach to most things, do we know what methods they are adopting?
Does this method really produce inferior fish? I don't know. Certain difficult to breed species have been induced to breed with hormones for years, many staples of the hobby and their quality seems fairly consistent.
And while the LFS owner referred to in the original post appears to have declined these fish, I'm sure there are many who will not so inevitably they will become part of the captive breeding populations.
I will re-emphasise that I am against this approach as I do not wish to be misinterpreted again, or court controversey.
Some good questions from both of you and to some extent I am as puzzled as you. From what I am being told the big breeders who are using this practice are located in Japan, Singapore and Germany. The shipments to the UK are coming in via Germany and czechoslovakia. As to why the low price tag..honest answer is I just don't know! There are rumours (and I have not been told this directly from the supplier) that they actually want to flood the market so as it puts any small time breeders out of the picture and leaves the market theirs alone. I have tryed to reason this out for myself and the only reason might be that the demand for Zebras is so great that they can actually make with the help of the hormones more money by selling them in huge qty's.
Like I said I don't have all the answers but I just know that there will be retailers who will see this as a money making opportunity and suddenly start getting regular supplies of these
It is very surprising to me as here in Hong Kong, the price of zebra is still very very high. Even for tank-bred juv (2-3cm) from mainland China, each one is selling at a price of US$200-US$250... from my source, zebra's price in Taiwan is also very very high. In addition, fish farms/traders in Japan and Germany used to export quality fish with high price tags... It is really very shocking to see them flooding the world with cheap zebra...
Are there any info of the exporters? If yes, please let me know and i also want to check it out (i actually plan to acquire some more zebra ...). Thanks much.
IMO, the "cheap" zebras are going to be another Hypancistrus species, most likely. There have been huge runs on L173 already and if you have access to wholesale lists you'll see just about every variant of "zebra" you could imagine, from Colombian to who knows what else. That doesn't make them zebras, but it DOES get the name out there with a lower price. I'd place money on that being what happened here. Zebras aren't easy to spawn, they have small spawns when they DO have them and noone in the world is breeding them in enough numbers or the price would be dropping and you'd find more available. It's simple economics.
blueblue wrote:
Are there any info of the exporters? If yes, please let me know and i also want to check it out (i actually plan to acquire some more zebra ...). Thanks much.
Sorry but firstly I will not promote this and secondly they will only deal with people who a) have a pet shop licence and b) Buy MANY BOXES of fish!
IMO, the "cheap" zebras are going to be another Hypancistrus species, most likely. There have been huge runs on L173 already and if you have access to wholesale lists you'll see just about every variant of "zebra" you could imagine, from Colombian to who knows what else. That doesn't make them zebras, but it DOES get the name out there with a lower price. I'd place money on that being what happened here. Zebras aren't easy to spawn, they have small spawns when they DO have them and noone in the world is breeding them in enough numbers or the price would be dropping and you'd find more available. It's simple economics.
Barbie
That could very well be the case and it has happened in the past, But in a way that could almost be worse. The fact is this little fish has become so rare that getting one almost seems more important than any conservation. I will not mention any names but I have already had a few PM's and Emails asking me for details and if I can get hold of these so for anyone interested the answer is NO!
Barbie wrote:IMO, the "cheap" zebras are going to be another Hypancistrus species, most likely. There have been huge runs on L173 already and if you have access to wholesale lists you'll see just about every variant of "zebra" you could imagine, from Colombian to who knows what else. That doesn't make them zebras, but it DOES get the name out there with a lower price. I'd place money on that being what happened here. Zebras aren't easy to spawn, they have small spawns when they DO have them and noone in the world is breeding them in enough numbers or the price would be dropping and you'd find more available. It's simple economics.
I agree with Barbie. In addition, the growth rate of zebra is slow which implies that the cost of getting a sellable zebra is high.
Frankly speaking, unless someone has really successfully
bought the real L46 from this so-called "source (if it exists at all) at the proposed price", otherwise, i am afraid i have to say that it is just a joke/trick... A joke that is always spreading around in the hobby.
I too have heard rumours from a pet shop owner about £40 zebras... in short he couldn't substanciate it.
That leads me to believe that there is no cheap way to buy a zebra yet.
Nobody wants to push prices down more than me. But the signs aren't good... For a start, I have seen various posts on here and other forums stating that numbers are severely depleted in the wild. And then there is the colossal demand... I know atleast 4 people locally that want one. That's just through direct contact.
That's just my opinion... Maybe I'm wrong and things are about to change drastically for the better.
blueblue wrote:
Frankly speaking, unless someone has really successfully
bought the real L46 from this so-called "source (if it exists at all) at the proposed price", otherwise, i am afraid i have to say that it is just a joke/trick... A joke that is always spreading around in the hobby.
But I still wont give you the info no matter what insults you may aim my way. Quite frankly I don't care what you think or believe blueblue. The purpose of the post was to inform people who should care about these plecs information has given to me but it would appear that there are still some that would do just about anything to get their hands on a zeb
The fact is that this fish has appeared on a wholesale list recently.
When a LFS has an ongoing relationship with a wholesaler it is unlikely they are going to mis-represent a fish. As for price I didn't enquire.
Another fish shop owner was offered these fish while in Germany for 35 Euro's each.
These fish are not easily mistaken for other species.
Despite the profit that can be made, both declined to purchase these fish.
Because of the status of this fish neither treat it as a saleable commodity, an attitude I commend wholeheartedly.
It could be argued that stocking this fish would benefit the captive population in the UK, but becauase of the cost and it's looks people keep trying to buy one.
As for difficult to breed, it is not, breeding enough to satisfy demand is a different matter. I've had 7 spawnings since December.
Regularity of spawning, we can't really expect it from a fish that is seasonal in the wild.
And finally I think, people who I have deealings with are reluctant to release a group of 6 related F1's to people who do not have unrelated fish.
The F1, F2, F3 debate has been done to death on here, but there is a thread on here about snubnoses and until it is resolved, environmental or genetic, I personally would rather not get to the F2 or F3 stage.
I don't think it's wise to assume that all LFS managers/owners are so considerate and commendable.
Quite simply put... if there is any truth to the rumours, which is all they are to me, one of the many LfS in your areas will start selling L46.
There are good people and bad people in the world... So it is fair to say that the truth will present itself in the next couple of months at an LFS near you.
Personally, I couldn't care less. I prefer to buy my zebs from an established UK based breeder. You can't put a price on quality.
Well I didn't assume that all LFS would adopt such an attitude and I would be surprised if they did.
I just thought I would post this info to show that people do care.
As for whether it is just rumours, time will tell.
My thinking on this though is that since Christmas, Pleco Aquatics, Just Cats, Wildwoods and Chens Discus have offered this fish for sale, these are commercial ventures. The first three I believe sourced their fish from local breeders. The latter announced his intention to obtain some and breed them, he now seems to have been successful.
Reports that there are Commercial Breeders in Germany, really has to be taken seriously, it works as a Cottage Industry so why not as a Commercial Venture.
The low prices being quoted while appearing astounding to those of us who have purchased them or trying to purchase them is not really a surprise.
In business, which they are, the biggest problem is getting new clients, which in turn means people changing from there current providers. What better way than with L46's. The shortfall in the profit that they could make from L46's is going to be more than made up for in sales from the rest of their catalogue.
I also would prefer to know the source of the fish, whether F1's etc, also prefer private breeders. Although I would not be averse to acquiring one or 2 fish from any source to breed with the young I am growing on.
I am totally against this practice and that is why i am warning anyone who is offered "cheap" Zebras to be aware that they may not be getting what they think they are!
Quite frankly I don't care what you think or believe blueblue. The purpose of the post was to inform people who should care about these plecs information has given to me but it would appear that there are still some that would do just about anything to get their hands on a zeb 