Filtration for fry

khblock · Post by **khblock** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:37 am

I'm setting up grow out tanks for my new zebra fry.

I have grow out tanks for my other fish fry (discus, angels, betta & etc.) and use a corner draw filter (can be seen here http://bigalsonline.com/catalog/product ... ry_id=1725)
as a miniature canister filter with a few modifications. I don’t use the carbon. But I do add lava rocks, clinoptilolite and filter floss to the unit. The lava rock allows bacteria to colonize, the clinoptitolite removes ammonia before it can turn into nitrate or nitrite (and it can be recharged). I buy large bolts of filter floss cut the size I need and change weekly.

This system creates a mechanical and biological filter and I don't have to worry about fry being sucked up the intake tube. I've used sponges over the intake in other tanks before and yes that does work, but I like this better. I hook the corner unit to an air stone and I can control the flow with the valve.

The air stone also adds oxygen back into the tank which I'm sure most of you know higher temp tanks need.

Is anyone here using a similar type of set up? My other fish seem to grow faster and healthier. Any thoughts on this set up?

Adam · Post by **Adam** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:12 am

Hi Khblock,

Your proposed fry set up sounds ok, I would consider doubling the amount of filteration if you plan on overfeeding the fry so as to maximise growth rates. You will also find that food spoils quick with the high tank temps so any additional filteration will be a bonus. What size tank were you planning on using? I have found that zebra fry dont grow too well if they are on their own in a large tank. They don't seem to forage very far from their hiding spots for food.

Off topic a bit but I find that growth rates for fry left with the adults are considerably better than fry that are isolated. I initially had my fry seperated from my adults until I noticed that escapees left in with the adults were considerably bigger. For the time being all my fry are in with the adults.

Adam

khblock · Post by **khblock** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:30 am

Thanks for the reply Adam.

These were my first fry so I pulled them as soon as I found them out on their own. My adults are in a 60 gallon tank and I'm afraid the little ones may not find food that well.

I have different size grow out tanks. I too found that if fry had to hunt for food they didn't do as well. I’ve read fry do better when left with the parents but my tank is so large. I hope to experiment and keep the fry from this last clutch of eggs with the parents. I will monitor and compare notes with my first spawn. With my other fish I start off with the 2.5 gallon and then move them up as they grow. Experience has show anything that can fit in the mouth of a larger fish will; resulting in little fish missing.

I have larger tanks with better filtration once the little ones grow. I've also noticed food spoiling in tanks with higher temps and work to keep them clean. I've read the nitrate and nitrite can inhibit growth in fry not to mention, its not healthy clean water.

Adam · Post by **Adam** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:09 am

No problem.

In the early days I used to pull the fry from their father in the belief that I could care for them better. I know that others swear by this but in my experience fry that are are cared for by the male do far better. I can understand that in your case you didn't have much choice as they were "kicked" out of the cave. I must admit that I have done a complete U turn on the way that I originally cared for zebra fry, thanks to McEve. I wouldn't worry about the fry being in with the adults, so long as it's a species tank there will not be any predation.

My own fry are in 380 litre tanks with the adults and they are doing very well. I overfeed my zebras so the fry getting food is not an issue. In fact the adults love the fry food too, I'm sure that the high protein content of the fry feed is helping to condition them quicker.

Your observations are spot on, as a discus keeper you are fully aware of the growth inhibitors that can affect fry. Just apply the same principles of water management to your zebra fry and they will do well.

Do let us know how you get on with the fry growth rate comparison.

Adam.

khblock · Post by **khblock** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:20 am

With you Rob, McEve, Barbie & Ceaser, Lyretail and others, we (forum users) are on good shape. I've learned a lot and appreciate you guys taking time to share.

Post by **Barbie** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:03 am

I always agreed that the fry were alright left in with the adults, until a few months ago. I was trying to shake up the hierarchy and moved the males to the opposing tanks, to give them a whole new social system to deal with. Great idea in theory, right until the big male found and killed one of the fry from the previous spawn with the other male. I'd never heard of it happening before but he was obviously angry and killed one of my females within weeks of murdering that fry, also. He's spawned since though, so maybe he got the hint that if he didn't get stuff figured out I WOULD upset his happy home life. Who knows :p. It was a hard way to find out they will sometimes kill fry if you piss them off badly enough though. I honestly never thought about removing the 4 month old fry from the tank. I just assumed they'd be fine.

Barbie

dave · Post by **dave** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:11 am

Well I'd always recommend growing the fry on in the tank with the adults.

I'm doing this in 46 gal (UK) and the fry do just fine. In addition I noticed 3 very small fry in the tank, so I am assuming they are still breeding.

Also by moving fish to growing on tanks, matching water parameters is difficult and who knows, what effect the shock of the change will have on the growth rate.

Also you have provided ideal water conditions for the fish to spawn, why change it?

Dave

jerms55555 · Post by **jerms55555** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:56 pm

I also leave my fry in the tank with the parents. My first couple of time I took some out and raised them in a floating breeding tank and with in a 2 month span the ones that were left in the tank were far bigger and more active. I dont really know why? Maybe they feel secure with the male and eat more often...??

KenW · Post by **KenW** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 8:54 pm

I have experimented with leaving the fry with the parents. I kept three in with the parents and took the rest out into a 10 gallon with other siblings from past spawns. I did this with 2 separate breeding groups. I couldn't tell that the fry in with the parents grew that much more. They were about the same size. Maybe it has more to do with the amount of room in our floating Basket if you keep them in their to long. I usually keep them in the basket for about a month then I move them to the 10 gallon.

Ken

jerms55555 · Post by **jerms55555** » Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:03 pm

Thats good to know than! So ken you just keep them in the basket for about a month after they hatch or you see the eggs? Now in the 10 gal tank, is it water mainly from the parents tank? And do you acclimate them the same as with any other fish?

Raul-7 · Post by **Raul-7** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:36 am

Maybe it's not so much to do with the water, but probably the security they miss or maybe it's the shock of being transfered at such a young age? Unless water parameters between are exactly the same, I wouldn't risk it. Taking into account TDS, pH, kH, gH and water quality (Redox, DO).

I see no reason to remove them from the parents as long as:
A) The parents aren't killing the fry.
B) They're getting enough to eat.

Not to mention it is much easier for their parents to care for them, than we ever could. Tests with other animals have proven that paternal care is much better than any care humans can provide. Maybe I'm going overboard, as afterall they are fish and aren't as complex as mammals.(?)

KenW · Post by **KenW** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:07 am

Jerms,

In one group I leave the fry until the yolk is pretty much absorbed, around two and half weeks, then I remove them from the cave into the basket. I do it this way because this particular dad takes care of the fry. One reason I like to move them after around a month is because I use a 20 gallon long and don't want to increase the bioload. Also this particular group breeds regularly every 4 to 5 weeks and produce around 7 to 12 fry each time. So when a new batch is ready I move the old batch into the 10 gallon to make room for the next batch.

In my other group I remove the fry once they hatch and are wiggling. I do this on this group because the dad has had several failed batches (5 or 6) and I want to make sure I save as many. This group also produces regularly around 4 to 6 weeks. I remove them in about a month for the same reason.

When I move the fry I acclimate them like any other fish. The water parameters are very close in pH, and hardness. I make sure before I move them. Also I keep the fry from the two groups in separate 10 gallons. After about 5 to 6 months I move them to my 42 bow front. This is my current process until I get my fish room completed.

Ken

KenW · Post by **KenW** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:11 am

Oh and for filtration in my baby zebra 10 gallons, I use a sponge filter, and an Aquaclear 50 (old 200) along with a 4 inch airstone.

ken

jerms55555 · Post by **jerms55555** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 6:08 pm

Ken
I think i might try that! Sounds like a pretty good way to do it. Also whats your best way to catch the fry?

khblock · Post by **khblock** » Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:13 pm

I used sponge filters for awhile but you have to rotate them out and soak them in peroxide to kill algae. My husband likes them for this betta fry tanks.

I like the little canister filters better. My discus and angels seem to grow faster. I don't know if they (modified corner unit) work better a sponge filter for removing ammonia, nitrate and nitrite but they do get the jobs done. I tend to over feed the fry some and every little bits helps.