The one male I have that seem to be eating the eggs was only 2.5 inches( 6 to 7 cm) when it first spawned and he is now around 2.75 inches. The females were only 2 to 2.25 inches. I measured them in a tub when I first got them.That's why I was so suprised when they spawned only after 2 to 3 months from purchase.... at that time I was planning to grow them out seeing that they were still young.
In my breeding tanks(reading this morning), the GH is around 250ppm (measured with a conductivity meter tobe 500microseimens ~250ppm) The KH is ~40ppm. One reason why I want to bring it down to 100ppm. The KH is a bit low but its okay since the pH is steady at around 7.2.
Rainy Season
Oh wow you guys this topic is awesome!!!
I tried to print it so I could add it to my Zebra library, but it gets cut off and I miss too much. Rob....how do you print the stuff off the forum? I think "Plecofanatics" has a print page, can you do that here too? If not, pleae make it so. So much great info here I want it in my binder.
I tried to print it so I could add it to my Zebra library, but it gets cut off and I miss too much. Rob....how do you print the stuff off the forum? I think "Plecofanatics" has a print page, can you do that here too? If not, pleae make it so. So much great info here I want it in my binder.
In the meantime you could try printing in landscape, that should work fine. If you have Word, and you want it printed in portrait, you could copy/paste the parts you want in to Word and print it from there.
Or - if you reply to a thread, you'll see that you get the previous posts in a pane with a scrollbar on the bottom of the page, heading is "Topic review". If you right click in that pane and choose "print", you'll get only the postings, and it will fit in portrait
Or - if you reply to a thread, you'll see that you get the previous posts in a pane with a scrollbar on the bottom of the page, heading is "Topic review". If you right click in that pane and choose "print", you'll get only the postings, and it will fit in portrait
Hi KenW,
Thanks for you answers but I have a few queries.
I too measured my tapwater yesterday with a conductivity meter and got a reading of 680 microsiemens. Adding 50% RO water then reduces this by half,to about 350 which I use for all my plecs ,including Zebras.The GH would then be about 7 and KH of about 3 degrees hardness, measured using a Gh and Kh test kit.(or test strips such as that made by Esha.)
A Conductivity meter measures TDS (Total dissolved Solids) and as far as I know, cannot extrapulate the GH and KH from this value.If one measures the TDS in a well fed,heavily populated tank, the TDS will increase to more than double,due to the extra organic material (fish waste) in the tank, in a few weeks if no water change is done.
GH and KH are normally measured in degrees from 0 to about 21, so therefore cannot understand your 2 results of 250ppm and 40 ppm .
Regards,
Des.
Thanks for you answers but I have a few queries.
I too measured my tapwater yesterday with a conductivity meter and got a reading of 680 microsiemens. Adding 50% RO water then reduces this by half,to about 350 which I use for all my plecs ,including Zebras.The GH would then be about 7 and KH of about 3 degrees hardness, measured using a Gh and Kh test kit.(or test strips such as that made by Esha.)
A Conductivity meter measures TDS (Total dissolved Solids) and as far as I know, cannot extrapulate the GH and KH from this value.If one measures the TDS in a well fed,heavily populated tank, the TDS will increase to more than double,due to the extra organic material (fish waste) in the tank, in a few weeks if no water change is done.
GH and KH are normally measured in degrees from 0 to about 21, so therefore cannot understand your 2 results of 250ppm and 40 ppm .
Regards,
Des.
Hi Des,
From the PinPoint conductivity meter users manual it tells me that the conversion is as follows
33 microSiemens = 17.9ppm
33microSiemens = 1dH (German ° hardness)
1dH = 17.9ppm
and it says that it is compensated for temp between 0-50 C.
That's what I used
so based on that info
500us(microsiemens)=15dH=271ppm probably means total hardness though they don't state that in their text.
you are correct about the conductivity meter measuring TDS( all inorganic salts) and the general harness primarily measuring calcium (Ca++) and magnesium (Mg++) ions in the water. And KH(alkalinity) measuring carbonates and bicarbonates.
My understanding from the liquid test kits is that you can convert dH to PPM by multiplying by 17.9.
Okay, after thinking about it and remeasuring
Note: water change was performed in between old and new test.
My pinpoint conductivity measures 475us (water change performed in between) which is 257.7 ppm total hardness.
My AP(aquarium pharm.) GH measures 13dH which is 232.7ppm.
And my AP KH measures 1dH which is 17.9ppm.
so adding the GH and KH I get 250.6ppm and since my total hardness was 257.7ppm. Then 7.1ppm is all other inorganics in the water phospates, nitrates, etc.
Granted they are different brand test and both has some error.
What is really bad is my KH out of the mains is only 1dH if not less since you can't read less than one drop for that type of test.
So looking at this my tanks should be fairly clean, and given that the KH is so low it looks like the GH is very close to the Total hardness in my case for now(winter time). Of course this will change all the time since I use city water.
Hopefully, my thinking is correct. Please correct me if not.
This is way toooooo long of a thread and I'm boring everyone now.
From the PinPoint conductivity meter users manual it tells me that the conversion is as follows
33 microSiemens = 17.9ppm
33microSiemens = 1dH (German ° hardness)
1dH = 17.9ppm
and it says that it is compensated for temp between 0-50 C.
That's what I used
so based on that info
500us(microsiemens)=15dH=271ppm probably means total hardness though they don't state that in their text.
you are correct about the conductivity meter measuring TDS( all inorganic salts) and the general harness primarily measuring calcium (Ca++) and magnesium (Mg++) ions in the water. And KH(alkalinity) measuring carbonates and bicarbonates.
My understanding from the liquid test kits is that you can convert dH to PPM by multiplying by 17.9.
Okay, after thinking about it and remeasuring
Note: water change was performed in between old and new test.
My pinpoint conductivity measures 475us (water change performed in between) which is 257.7 ppm total hardness.
My AP(aquarium pharm.) GH measures 13dH which is 232.7ppm.
And my AP KH measures 1dH which is 17.9ppm.
so adding the GH and KH I get 250.6ppm and since my total hardness was 257.7ppm. Then 7.1ppm is all other inorganics in the water phospates, nitrates, etc.
Granted they are different brand test and both has some error.
What is really bad is my KH out of the mains is only 1dH if not less since you can't read less than one drop for that type of test.
So looking at this my tanks should be fairly clean, and given that the KH is so low it looks like the GH is very close to the Total hardness in my case for now(winter time). Of course this will change all the time since I use city water.
Hopefully, my thinking is correct. Please correct me if not.
This is way toooooo long of a thread and I'm boring everyone now.
Hi KenW.
Many thanks for that info.
I have learned something new today.
I have always measured hardness in dH and was not aware that it could be measured in ppm.
It is also good to know the formula for working out the hardness from TDS i.e. 33uS = 17.9ppm = 1dH
My only concern would be that if one used this formula in a tank with a lot of organic waste, therefore giving a high TDS, one would get a wrong hardness value.
Many thanks once again,
Des.
Many thanks for that info.
I have learned something new today.
I have always measured hardness in dH and was not aware that it could be measured in ppm.
It is also good to know the formula for working out the hardness from TDS i.e. 33uS = 17.9ppm = 1dH
My only concern would be that if one used this formula in a tank with a lot of organic waste, therefore giving a high TDS, one would get a wrong hardness value.
Many thanks once again,
Des.
I have zero GH and KH in my tap water. Only after I got the trouble with fry and osmosis regulation did I start adding chemicals to get a higher KH and GH, and also, in my planted tank where I add CO2 I make sure to have a buffer in the water.
Part from that, I use the tap water and have not experiencced a PH crash in any tank so far, not in the Zebra tanks before adding KH+ either.
I thought that was an issue primarily if you add CO2?
So little time and so much to learn
Part from that, I use the tap water and have not experiencced a PH crash in any tank so far, not in the Zebra tanks before adding KH+ either.
I thought that was an issue primarily if you add CO2?
So little time and so much to learn
Ed_R wrote:MEssing with hardness and gh and kh and tds and buffering and all that sort of stuff really gives me a headache.
Glad I'm not the only one!I didn't do anything with the water, except making sure the temp was right, and also letting it sit a few hours before adding it to the tanks before. Now I have to do a bit to make sure everybody stays happy and healthy, but I try to keep it at a minimum. It's much harder to keep the parameters stable the more you mess with the water...
Yes, I found that too. When I was breeding angels I would filter through peat and turn the water an iced tea color. This just wouldn't do though, so I built a 'water treatment system' that was basically a 58 gallon tank, with a weekly cycle- two days in peat, two days in carbon to get rid of the color, two days in CHemiPure to even out the ion balance, and on the seventh day it would go into the breeder tank- a 30 gallon, and I did 20 percent changes.So I was processing almost 60 gallons of water for a 6-gallon a week water change!
And it didn't MATTER! In the end, the angels got acclimated to harder water and kept breeding for years long after the 58 was used for my first saltwater reef tank.
And it didn't MATTER! In the end, the angels got acclimated to harder water and kept breeding for years long after the 58 was used for my first saltwater reef tank.
Hi Des,
The way I get around the pH from crashing is I use some crush coral in the filter. I wash that every week or two to remove any sediment and detritus. This helps stabilize the pH. Occassionally I've seen the pH still drop when I'm feeding heavily and I usually add alittle bicarbonate to the water just to counter the drop. I usually check the pH a day after a water change. Does the sera product also raise the pH because a lot of the products in the states made to raise alkalinity will also raise the pH, many...many brands.
One thing I'm not sure of is whether TDS measure the organic load. I thought to get that you would need an ORP meter. Even with an ORP meter pH and temperature will affect the numbers. The pinpoint literature only mentions that the conductivity meter measure inorganic salts/minerals.
Ed your right messing with all the water parameters can get very tricky. I think what is important is to have a stable environment. In my case I didn't do anything special to get them start. Others on this board also have mention the same thing. I think the KISS method is probably the best.
My purpose to lower the hardness is to see if it helps the hatch rate. But I'm not so sure that's the only thing. It could be experience, age, or conditioning of the male. so more experiments are needed.
Thanks,
Ken- the simple fish keeper.
The way I get around the pH from crashing is I use some crush coral in the filter. I wash that every week or two to remove any sediment and detritus. This helps stabilize the pH. Occassionally I've seen the pH still drop when I'm feeding heavily and I usually add alittle bicarbonate to the water just to counter the drop. I usually check the pH a day after a water change. Does the sera product also raise the pH because a lot of the products in the states made to raise alkalinity will also raise the pH, many...many brands.
One thing I'm not sure of is whether TDS measure the organic load. I thought to get that you would need an ORP meter. Even with an ORP meter pH and temperature will affect the numbers. The pinpoint literature only mentions that the conductivity meter measure inorganic salts/minerals.
Ed your right messing with all the water parameters can get very tricky. I think what is important is to have a stable environment. In my case I didn't do anything special to get them start. Others on this board also have mention the same thing. I think the KISS method is probably the best.
My purpose to lower the hardness is to see if it helps the hatch rate. But I'm not so sure that's the only thing. It could be experience, age, or conditioning of the male. so more experiments are needed.
Thanks,
Ken- the simple fish keeper.
