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Rainy season

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:11 pm
by gtp
Ok I believe I have got my dry season established. Parameters are:

7.0-7.2 PH
10 GH (360ppm)
5-6 KH
86f

I'm thinking about initiating a rainy season soon, implementing these parameters:

Reducing temp to 82f, and then to 76f overnight about 1 week into the rainy season.
Lowering the PH from 7.0 to 6.5 via water changes over a week (ending with the sudden temp drop).
softening the water to about 3-4 GH.
Adding alot of live food over the rainy season.

However the zebs aren't all that interested in their caves at the moment. They go in them every now and then but they seem more interested in hanging around under the slate. So long as they are undercover they don't seem to feel the need for going into the caves. They are adults, by the way. Approaching 3".

My question is whether they have to already be in caves prior to the rainy season for breeding to take place, or will they go into the caves when I start the rainy season, or maybe after the overnight temp drop? And are my rainy season parameters ok?

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:52 pm
by mistern2005
I thought the GH needed to get above 600ppm. I am no expert, I haven't tried to dry/rainy season my zebras yet.

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:28 pm
by gtp
Hmm I wouldn't have thought so. African fish, for example, prefer water with a GH of 160-360ppm. 600ppm would surely be far too high for any south American species?

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:29 pm
by dconnors
I am definately interested in this post as right now my water parameters are almost identical to yours, except my temp is 82 and my tds are at right around 300ppm. I, too, have some males in caves, but aside from that noone is showing any signs of being interested in "gettin' it on" :luw: . I am really looking forward to seeing where this post goes.
Dave

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:30 pm
by gtp
My understanding of this species was that they spend most of their time in the caves provided, particularly the males. But mine just seem okay with hanging around under a cleft of bogwood or some slate. They have ventured into the caves every now and then but there does not seem to be any permanence to it. My main concern is whether they will go into the caves properly with the rainy season or whether 'getting it on' couldn't be further from their minds...

As for TDS - there seemed to be an interesting discovery I made on this forum when I searched through some of the old topics. It appears someone found out that 18ppm of GH = 33microsiemens(?) of TDS. That would mean that:

10GH = 10x18 = 180ppm = 330microsiemens (roughly).

Not sure if it can be confirmed though.

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 11:44 pm
by vanillarum
gtp, my zebras are the same way. Only the older, adult males take up residence in the caves. The rest of them are under rocks, slate, driftwood, and whatever else they can find. I think that when they are younger, they tend to roam more than the adults. Good luck.

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 2:16 am
by Frontyking
vanillarum wrote:gtp, my zebras are the same way. Only the older, adult males take up residence in the caves. The rest of them are under rocks, slate, driftwood, and whatever else they can find. I think that when they are younger, they tend to roam more than the adults. Good luck.
I too have found the same to happen as vanillarum has mentioned.

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:49 pm
by gtp
vanillarum wrote:gtp, my zebras are the same way. Only the older, adult males take up residence in the caves. The rest of them are under rocks, slate, driftwood, and whatever else they can find. I think that when they are younger, they tend to roam more than the adults. Good luck.
Hmm, well I'm pretty sure they are of breeding size. Will this behaviour hinder any breeding activity I'm trying to induce with the rainy season?

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:24 pm
by TwoTankAmin
Here is what I have observed over the years with my zebras that may or may not be helpful.

From being free swimming until close to spawning age/size, they live in groups in small spaces. As they age the groups get smaller and some begin to be loners in caves or larger tight spaces.

Sexually mature males claim caves. All older zebras may shelter overnight in caves. Caves are claimed and defended/occupied most vigorously during spawning season and much less so during hiatus. (Territory also is more or less of an issue based on tank space/cover&caves/# and sex of fish present.)

Dry season: fish should be well fed/conditioned/ tds should be higher and temp should be higher end of the range. Current can be less but isnt a pprimary concern. Ph/kh dont matter all that much imo.
Rainy season: onset should be immediately preceeded by or occur simultaneously with a change in Barometric pressure as is typical with a rain or snow storm hurricane etc. Cleaner water- ie lower tds are introduced and I believe these two factors are the key triggers. The water is also cooler which I consider a secondary trigger and the increased current and change in pH don't matter all that much, imo.

Here is the thing. Trying to do the least necessary to induce spawning and working out from there is normally the best way, again imo. So if one can work only with their tap water and use minimal additives etc. to achieve results, great. If not get more intense and go beyond the key factors. Using ro water, adding temp changes, simulating rain for refills, doing water changes several times in a row are all possibilities.

I would start by raising the temp to mid 80s and feed em up on frozen blood worms for a bit and do minimal water changes and see if anybody grabs a cave. Males looking to spawn will leave their butt hanging out of the cave and wave it around to let the ladies know there is a good time inside :-)

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:44 pm
by kingie11
fantastic post thanks for the info

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 10:33 pm
by gtp
Thanks for that TwoTankAmin:)

Basically I have done all of what you said, regarding the dry season, even the optional environment changes. They haven't had a water change now for a good two/three weeks, have the temp high on 86f and have made the water quite hard at 10GH (330 TDS, I think). Plus I have been feeding them a fair bit. I'll probably start feeding them a bit more bloodworm, like you suggest.

There is one zebra, on the far left of the tank, which often goes into a cave there and leaves half of his (I believe its a him, not sure though) body outta the cave. No tail waving though. And likewise something similar goes on at the other end of the tank, occasionally with another zeb. Not sure if that one is male or female though.
This is as much interest in the caves the Zebs have shown, thus far.

My current plan is to continue the dry season for another 2 weeks. I'm trying to get nitrates down a bit as well atm. I'll feed a fair bit of bloodworm during that time, maybe 2/3 times a week. After that I'll try and initiate the rainy season, hopefully colliding with a change in the weather conditions for the worse (its quite sunny atm).

As for the 30-50% water change with cooler and softer water and the drop in tank temp to 76f overnight - do I do that at the beginning of the rainy season, or in the middle?

Does all this seem ok to you?

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:14 pm
by TwoTankAmin
The rainy season starts with storms- barometric pressure change- followed pretty quickly by an influx of cleaner cooler water.

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2009 11:48 pm
by gtp
By cleaner I assume you mean softer water, i.e. lower dissolved substances in it, thus a lower GH?

So:

Dry season>weather change>big water change with cool, softer water, and lower temperature to 76f overnight>two weeks of softer, cooler water with a lower PH> gradually build back up to dry season conditions afterwards.

Is that about right? Anything else wothy of note? Like what to feed them during the two week rainy season, and what the temps should be during that time? Do I also perform alot of water changes during the rainy season (apart from initial major one)?

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:55 am
by mistern2005
TTA - what target TDS levels do you try to achieve?

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:59 am
by mistern2005
http://www.zebrapleco.com/forum/viewtop ... 54&start=0

This is a thread to another member who induced spawing via a rainy season who raised TDS to 600ppm, then dropped them to 100ppm.