Swollen juv.

platty252 · Post by **platty252** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:07 pm

I came in from work to find one of my zebs with a swollen stomach.
It is roughly 9-10 months old. Water parameters are fine. All other zebs are ok.
I havent fed them anything new or different.
I cant find any feces in the tank to say if it is white or stringy.
I was thinking of treating with flubenol 15, but i will wait for some advice first.

A quick update; after closer inspection the plec is blood shot on top of his head, between the eyes.
The underside has a small verry red indent just below the mouth.
The left side of the belly is black and the right side is red (blood red )
Breeding is a little fast but not overly so. Still swimming but i dont give it much hope.

I will take a couple of pic's but it may be tomorrow before i can post them.
I am on dial up so it will take all evening to up load.

Water; temp 28.5c pH. 6.8 Gh. 6 kh. 4 Amonia. 0 Nitrite. 0 Nitrate. 2.5
Tank; 10 zebs juv. L-46 2 king tiger juv. L-66 .

smithrc · Post by **smithrc** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:34 pm

Do you have a piccy?

Having seen a thread on here recently - whats you KH and GH like? (Hardness)

Patrick888 · Post by **Patrick888** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 2:17 pm

Hi Darren

Uny update on the ill zebra. Hope you were able to save it

eklikewhoa · Post by **eklikewhoa** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:06 pm

Do you have some pictures of the one in question?

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 6:30 pm

platty252 wrote:I

A quick update; after closer inspection the plec is blood shot on top of his head, between the eyes.

I have seen this before. How long have you kept the fish in the tank where it is now?

eklikewhoa · Post by **eklikewhoa** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 7:07 pm

What is it? could someone link me to the previous discussion about this swollen juvi disease?

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:14 pm

eklikewhoa wrote: could someone link me to the previous discussion about this swollen juvi disease?

It's this one: http://www.zebrapleco.com/forum/viewtop ... highlight=

But I'm not sure this is what's wrong with platty252s juveniles...

platty252 · Post by **platty252** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 11:56 pm

I was unable to save him. 24 hours later he died.
I am having trouble with my computer so i have been unable to load any photos.
It has been in this tank for 2-3 months.
The day after the original post and the day he died he had fungus coming from his Annis. This would suggest to me that he was blocked up, with a small piece of feces at the Annis that fungus-ed.
I did a quick amature examination just after he died.
As soon as i opened him up what appeared to be boil (like oily water) oozed out.
I looked at some blood under a micro scope. It appeared like it was 30% white cells, or gas/water. i just dont know. But it just wasn't right.
Some one had suggested hardness could be the cause.
can you explain this to me a bit more. I taught a Gh of 6 and a kh of 4 would be fine for them. If it's not let me know.
All the others seem fine. I wil keep you posted.

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 3:06 pm

It sounds more like an infection than osmosi problems. The internal bleeding suggests infection as well. A Gh of 6 and a kh of 4 is not a lot, but should be enough to avoid the osmosis breakdown we've seen happening in fry earlier.

Sorry for your loss

Post by **John** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:06 pm

Sorry, a bit late

, tought i allready posted this:

I did treat young L66 with the same symptoms succesfully using this:

http://www.junglelabs.com/pages/details.asp?item=NJ010

Might worth a try if anyone is confronted with this problem, it worked for my L66 and i definetily will use it again.

platty252 · Post by **platty252** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:37 pm

Ok after opening up a new test kit today to double check my water everything is pretty much the same except the kH 50ppm-2.8dH and the gh 60ppm-3.36gH.
the test kit i was using wasn't old, about 3 months old. But we all know test kits can be wrong.
The idea of osmoregulation sounds most likely except for the hemeraging in the head. Unless the water retention caused not only the swelling but some sort of flux between the water and the blood resulting in the blood vessels swelling making them visible in the head as well as the body.
I am clutching at straws here so forgive me if it sounds ridiculous.
If it was osmoregulation or brought on by osmotic stress how could this have been reversed successfully?
I have read that increasing gH can cause a calcium build up in the kidneys resulting in death.

My first taughts on seeing the sick pleco was viral infection untill i seen the fungus then i taught it was bacterial and when i opened him i taught it was a dietary problem due to the blockage and what seemed to be like boil.
But now after re testing the water i am thinking it's the water been to soft.

I have managed to get some photos from my computer.

Here is a view of the head. you can see the red between the eyes. The pleco was still alive here.

here you can see the underside. Dead in this pic. and a lot of the swelling has gone down. If you look closely you can see the fungus on the Annis.

Here is a link with the pleco opened up and a shot of the blood.
http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a171/ ... a%20pleco/

Any ideas or suggestions welcome.
Also is it possible to increase the gH without increasing the ph or using acids that would result in false readings of kH and pH?
I have added a small amount of crushed coral to increase the gH for the moment.
Best regards, Darren.

platty252 · Post by **platty252** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:43 pm

Well i finally get a chance to come back to this tread and i think i know what caused the problem.
I should mention it was most likely Bacterial septicemia and not osmoregulation. The red markings are a sure sign of bacterial infection.

A little over a year ago there was a problem in my area with the water.
When you added new water to a tank you would get an instant oil slick across the surface of the water and the fish were suffering.
I know of a few people in my area that lost fish at this time.
I decided to install an ionic carbon filter. This seemed to solve the problem and i have been using it ever since.
This was supposed to be good for 33'000 gallons. I have used roughly 4,480gallons since i started using it.
The TDS from this unit was 80ppm when i started using it.
The TDS is now 128ppm which is strange since it is only 93ppm before going through the filter.
To me this would suggest the filter is leaching pure badness back in to the water.
I should also mention i have bacterial problems in a couple of other tanks with no deaths except for the zebra pleco. All been treated with antibiotics.
No nets, hoses etc are used from tank to tank.

briankchung · Post by **briankchung** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:23 pm

I just lost 2 juv. this morning not knowing that is the low KH.I have 3 other juvs. bloaded hope they might recover.....sigh

http://www.plecofanatics.com/gallery/sh ... 93/cat/513

http://www.plecofanatics.com/gallery/sh ... 93/cat/513

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:13 pm

Sorry I haven't been around so much lately.
briankchung: Get your water harder now, your fry is suffering osmose problems.

Platty252: Yours did Indeed have a bacterial infection, or a poison of some sort.

briankchung · Post by **briankchung** » Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:55 pm

I did use more of the mineral salt and used interpet internal bacterial no.9 will that help?Hope they dont die just feelreally bad....

Swollen juv.

Swollen juv.

Re: Swollen juv.

Re: Swollen juv.

Bloaded....sigh

bloaded