Alpha male

marcus · Post by **marcus** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:23 pm

Today it was time for a full tank strip down and reset up. I had a u/v sterilize I wanted to fit as well as a new external heater and filter.

So there I am most of the water in cans, when it comes time to get my alpha male for his hide out.
He like living in a plastic tree stump and once he was out I thought all would be ok.
I started picking the zebs out while they were still in there caves, there shouldn’t have been a problem as my alpha was out so I didn’t really have to worry about eggs or fry.
anyway 3rd cave in and Im gently tipping the zebra from his cave when 20 eggs pop out, all fertile and with little tails and heads popping out.
This spawn has come from my second in command and the smaller female, making them completely different genetically from my other fry.

So left speechless, with a fry trap and air stone, Im scratching my head. From my limited understanding aren’t only alpha males meant to spawn?

Plastic Mac · Post by **Plastic Mac** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:12 pm

Firstly congratulations!

Yes your right that is the general concensus that females will only spawn with the alpha.

However the same thing happened to me a few months back, suddenly the male they mated with switched. I personally think it was due to something I did rather than something that happened within the group.

The story in a brief rundown is this.

I had an alpha which the females were mating with. I put most of my caves at angles which I can't see into, so they feel more comfortable. However after a while I gently moved the alphas cave so I could see into it. A week or so later he left the cave..it wasn't until I realised that every day when i walked into the room they are in, I opened the door which caused sunlight to pour into the room flooding the cave with sunlight. I am sure this is why he left. Anyway I assume the next thing that happened was he took over another cave turfing the male in that cave out. The turfed out male then went into the alpha's old cave and stayed there. Since that point he has been the one to spawn and not the original alpha.

Which makes me think either of two things.

1. The females are too stupid to know the difference...but I doubt that's likely.

2. Being the alpha isn't the sole requirement for spawning with the females. Perhaps the location of the cave also plays a part in deciding whether a female will spawn with that particular male. Hence the females prefer that cave and think because he now owns it, he is the alpha male.

Any other thoughts or ideas are most welcome. Did perhaps anything like this happen to you?

Plastic Mac

marcus · Post by **marcus** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:22 pm

im well chuffed. its my 3rd spawn this year. 2nd in 2 and half months.

i didnt do a thing. i havnt touched the tank since my last fry. my alpha has stuck to his tree stump and my big female has been lazing around in her usall spot.
i normally dont see my alpha, he might pop out just before feed time but otherwise he sticks to his stump.
a few days ago i noticed that one of my smaller females went missing, i just thought she was with alpha but it looks like she had other ideas.

the temp has been constant at 27C for the last 4 weeks. no water changes in the last couple of weeks. i didnt feed the last few days though because of the tank strip down.
maybe with no food they had to find something to do!!

Plastic Mac · Post by **Plastic Mac** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:25 pm

Well they sure found something to do lol!

Females are also pretty choosey in exactly who they mate with it would appear. So maybe you have a female who doens't like the alpha and prefers another male...

marcus · Post by **marcus** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:38 pm

is there anything special i should do with the eggs now.
i have them in a fry trap with an airsone. but should i seperate the eggs or just leave the ones that are in a clump alone?

Plastic Mac · Post by **Plastic Mac** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:53 pm

Personally I'd leave them alone. If you see any fungus appearing then obviously remove the infected ones so it doesn't spread but otherwise just leave them to do their thing.

Lucy · Post by **Lucy** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 7:56 pm

Marcus
Congratulations!!

Post by **TwoTankAmin** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 8:04 pm

I have two males that spawned pretty much in rotation for a few months. I think once the alpha male is on eggs he rejects any other interested females. Since woman don't like rejection, they move on to the next most desirable male.

After about 8 or 9 spawns the 2nd male seemed unable to attract the ladies but the alpha male has continued to spawn.

One thing I will note, all the spawns have been in the same two caves and I have a strong suspicion this is related to their placement in the tank. They are both at the far end of the tank from the powerhead and spraybar outputs and nearer to the intake for the Hot Mag which is plumbed to suck and flow from opposite ends of the tank.

I remember years back when I was first looking for zebras a friend who was trying to help me told me his preferred the caves in a similar position. If I had to guess I would say they like a flow, but not and overly strong one. Maybe it has to do with the current being able to woosh the eggs/fry out? I am not sure.

And congrats on a huge spawn

eklikewhoa · Post by **eklikewhoa** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 10:04 pm

does anyone tumble the zebra eggs? like put them in a strainer with a bit of air bubbles flowing through them from underneath?

i have seen it used for lots of mouthbrooding fish to keep fungus from forming but dont know about egglayers.

with the spawn i think its the two lowest in rank male and female that have paired? possibly tired of being turned down and hooked up with each other?

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:37 pm

eklikewhoa wrote:does anyone tumble the zebra eggs? like put them in a strainer with a bit of air bubbles flowing through them from underneath?

i have seen it used for lots of mouthbrooding fish to keep fungus from forming but dont know about egglayers.

Zebra eggs are very very fragile. You can pick up an Ancistrus egg and roll it between your fingers. Try that with a Zebra egg and you won't get a baby from that egg! Interesting idea though, if they can handle it. Would be interesting to hear if somebody has tried it!

Post by **John** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:05 pm

McEve did you read this one:

http://www.l46.at/zucht_l134.htm

especially the part about freeing young from the egg

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:12 pm

I don't read German, sorry. Looks like it's about Peckoltia?

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:13 pm

Plastic Mac wrote: Females are also pretty choosey in exactly who they mate with it would appear. So maybe you have a female who doens't like the alpha and prefers another male...

I can second this, for what it's worth

BZ · Post by BZ » Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:39 am

eklikewhoa wrote:does anyone tumble the zebra eggs? like put them in a strainer with a bit of air bubbles flowing through them from underneath?

i have seen it used for lots of mouthbrooding fish to keep fungus from forming but dont know about egglayers.

I have tried "tumbling" the eggs (with wiggling tail already). So far from six only one left (not sure whether it's going to survive). I use this method to tumble my Tangs cichlids with great success. I tried tumbling the eggs because the male kicked them out from the cave. I would like to show you the picture, but I don't know how to post it.

marcus · Post by **marcus** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 10:52 pm

just a quick up date.
the 17 fry i found are doing great, muching away at whatever greens i put in.
i have also just found a zeb fry wandering around my tank. my first thought was that one had jumped out of the fry trap.
it hadnt and my zebs have spawned again!!
im well chuffed!!

happy new year