Not so wild Zebras

Whats happening in the wild, current issues and debates....oooh this one'll get hot!

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madmoroccan
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Post by madmoroccan »

How possible is it that hormones have been used in these new emerging stocks (allegedly)?

Does anybody know of cases where slow developing pl*cos (not necessarily L46) have been fed hormones to speed their growth?

And how ethical do forum users think this practice is if it exists?
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Plastic Mac
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Post by Plastic Mac »

madmoroccan wrote:How possible is it that hormones have been used in these new emerging stocks (allegedly)?

Does anybody know of cases where slow developing pl*cos (not necessarily L46) have been fed hormones to speed their growth?

And how ethical do forum users think this practice is if it exists?

I would have thought it's very lightly that hormones have been used. Although I wouldn't cast everyone in Asia with the same brush as I'm sure they are some excellent breeders out there, but I would have thought if they are being bred in Asia then there is an even higher chance that hormones have been used.

I know of no cases at all where hormones have been used, but considering it isn't best practise to begin with I'm surprised anyone would openly admit to it anyway.

As for the last question, I'm not sure there's even a need to ask it...it's wrong full stop in my opinion. Using hormones in your breeding process is done, imo, for no other reason than making money quickly. In other words it's a case of profit before fish welfare. One can only then wonder how well the fish have been kept and look after during that time if money is the priority.
Last edited by Plastic Mac on Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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thebuddy
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Post by thebuddy »

how does one breed fish with hormones???
is it some sort of injection?
dosing the water with something?

why is it considered a bad thing?
can it harm the fish in some way?
does it shorten there lifespan?

it would be great if someone would answer these questions
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Post by Raul-7 »

thebuddy wrote:how does one breed fish with hormones???
is it some sort of injection?
dosing the water with something?

why is it considered a bad thing?
can it harm the fish in some way?
does it shorten there lifespan?

it would be great if someone would answer these questions
This was taken from: http://www.fishtanksandponds.net/settin ... d_fish.htm

1. To make them breed, mainly used for species which are difficult to breed normally and to give the breeder total control over the whole process. Side effects unknown.

2. To make the young fish grow and mature more quickly. So that they can be sold on at an earlier age. Side effects - fish which mature at an earlier age don't grow as big as fish which mature later. Also fish raised with hormone additives are much less fertile later in life.

3. The fish are given a large dose of male hormone, the effect of this is to make both sexes appear in excellent condition and exaggerates their normal colours. This obviously makes them more tempting to buy, but - The treatment will also make the fish sterile, the intense colour only lasts for a few weeks and then it fades to a very pale drab fish, often less colourful than an untreated fish and at worst it will greatly reduce the normal life span of the fish.


I will add, I think they inject the hormones into the fish based on their mass. An example, most of the ugly Rams you find at your LFS are brought in from Asian fisheries where hormone use is common-practice.
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Post by zeberdy »

Thought this might be interesting

long url here

This seller has already sold 2 sets of 6!

I wonder where they are getting 64 from and at such low prices :? They work out at £37.50 each!
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Post by Plastic Mac »

zeberdy wrote:Thought this might be interesting

long url here

This seller has already sold 2 sets of 6!

I wonder where they are getting 64 from and at such low prices :? They work out at £37.50 each!
I have just asked him where he is getting them from and also mentioned they are no doubt being exported illegally. We shall see what he says.
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Post by zeberdy »

They are an aquatic company and this information was given on the original auction http://www.mwaquaticdesign.co.uk/. They have contact details etc. Please let us know Plastic Mac what their reply is and I will give them a call to find out details. We can then compare notes.
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Post by Plastic Mac »

His reply:


Hello,
After talking to the supplier i have asatained that these fish are captive breed. Thanks for your question.
Regards
Matt



I guess it's up to each person to decide whether that is the truth or not. I'm doubtful. :?
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madmoroccan
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Post by madmoroccan »

That is the most upsetting thing I have ever come across! :x :x :x

I am absolutely furious! :x


For once... this time I hate bieng right about human nature...

The question is are these really wild caught or are they the hormone treated ones?

Who is thinking of buying these?
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Post by zeberdy »

I haven't been able to get an answer for the contact number yet but thanks for the update Plastic Mac. I have however emailed them myself and just to see how low they could go asked what he would charge for 10.

Hello
We would do 10 for £330.00 and you could choose what mix of males/females.
Regards
Matt

Thats £33 each just in case your maths is off!
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Post by discusbabe »

Hi everyone, I decided to join in on this thread as I am indeed a winner of one of his previous auctions! I know zeberdy and we have spoken on the phone about this this afternoon also.

I have questioned the seller already about whether or not they are wild caught and have had two different answers so far believe it or not! The last one being that he asked his supplier whilst ordering the 64 he now has on auction and they confirmed they are captive bred.

I feel stupid for thinking that such a good deal would be real and I do feel that these are no doubt the hormone treated fish that have been discussed so far.

The good news is that I have not parted with any cash and have absolutely no intention of doing so until I have concrete proof that these fish have had no contact whatsoever with hormones! In fact after the mistruths I have received from him it is highly likely that I WILL NOT buy these fish!

Reading back over emails from him he has mentioned that they come from a fish farm in Germany, this may or may not be true though as the seller really does not appear to know anything about the fish he is selling nor the way they have bred.

He so far has confirmed via email that they are from a certain wholesaler who Zeberdy has confirmed this is not the case after speaking to that wholesaler!

I am awaiting a further response from him!
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madmoroccan
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Post by madmoroccan »

Can I make a formal request to the mods to create a webpage on this site to warn potential buyers about the use of hormones?

Yes I know that there is a separate forum for this request, but I feel that it would get more attention on this topic.

Also, is there any scientific way to prove that these fish are indeed hormone treated fish? The reason I ask is because we can stop speculating and make serious allegations stick against these idiots who are creating a crisis and risking our hobby by polluting it with inferior fish.

Welcome to cheaper genetically modified L46. :x
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Post by Barbie »

Honestly, hormonally treating fish that aren't egg scatterers seem a bit far fetched to me. They hormone treat some african cichlids to make them show adult male coloration and be more marketable, and it's commonplace, yes, much like the ugly dyed parrot fish, but most of the transship lists for fish that you can buy from places in the Orient have NO plecos on them. Not L260, Ancistrus, or any of the easier to spawn fish with larger broods that would also be very marketable.

I personally know of two different people with breeding groups of zebras in the hundreds and while they are producing a large amount of fry, the demand is still staying high enough that the price isn't dropping. I wish it would, to be honest, as the drama surrounding these fish can be a bit much.

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Post by madmoroccan »

I am not satisfied that reply Barbie...

This ís a serious threat... Cheap L46 don't just surface for no reason.
We are talking about 10 fish for the price of 2-3! Are you aware of the meaning of this?

Or has somebody running a business just put the fish on ebay for that price out of the kindness of their hearts?

Are you advising DISCUSBABE to buy these fish because we are overeacting?
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Post by discusbabe »

I don't think there is any overreacting going on here if that helps and as I have received a copy of an email with this information in from back in May I certainly suspect there is something fishy going on, pardon the pun!

I suppose I was so excited at the prospect of getting some Zebra plecs at a cheaper price than the ones that are normally seen on ebay etc that I kind of ignored the fact that it was too good to be true! It has to be at the end of the day IMO!

Something isn't right and at this rate there will be over 80 Zebra Plecs being bought via this seller and who knows why they are so cheap but there has to be a reason!
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