L183

husky_jim · Post by **husky_jim** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:04 am

Today to the way from the airport to home i stop to the biggest lfs in Greece that i was informed that had some BN's.For my joy they where true L183 the first after 3 years here...!!!
So i got 2 males and 3 females.
All the fish looked fine but when i checked them again 1 by 1 at home one of the females had all of these at the botton of her body....!!!
I have never seen before something like that!
I contact the lfs owner which is a friend of mine in order to check the rest of them but the where all fine so where my other 4.
Does anyone knows what is this thing?

Caesars · Post by **Caesars** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:31 am

Jim, my guess is she is suffering from a form of nodular disease

- the problem is there is no reliable cure for it. I would personally return the fish explaining its condition to the lfs owner and asking them to keep it separately. If on the other hand you decide to keep her, as with all fish having cysts or tumours you must keep her isolated from the others and keep monitoring her. Also, I wouldn't feed the lady live foods.
It may be an idea to email this picture to a couple of tropical fish research centres and see what they say.

Best of luck with her.

du ma · Post by **du ma** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 1:21 pm

two of my zebras has the same thing but only a minor case. they seem healthy and eatting well. they had it since the day i first brought them home. i had them for almost two years and the disease did not spread or heal. but it didnt seem to bother the fish at all.

this one got into a territory dispute with another male two days ago. the cyst was badly damaged and its pinkish inside.

good luck with your fish jim

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 3:40 pm

I would quarantine the fish. It looks like something is coming from the inside of the fish and pressing it's way out? It's even got one in it's mouth.

Looks parasitic to me, but a search have not helped finding a pictures of anything similar yet.

I don't think it's the same thing as du ma's fish has...

Caesars · Post by **Caesars** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 4:35 pm

McEve wrote: I don't think it's the same thing as du ma's fish has...

Agree McEve. I have read that occasionally fish develop tumours (particularly those that live in polluted waters) which are "harmless". I also understand that sometimes tumours are congenital - but then it would be one or two as with du ma's fish. The L183 is full of them.

I have checked various books with fish illnesses on this one. I have found only one online resource:

http://www.fishpalace.org/Disease.html#Tumor which doesn't quite specify causes.

According to the Interpet Manual of fish Health nodular diseases can be caused by "various microsporidian and myxosporidian parasites, such as Ichtyosporidium, Nosema, Mysobolus and Henneguya".

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:18 pm

I'm going to go out on a limb on this one, and suggest Clinostomum, or yellow grub. It's commmon in the US, Africa, Asia and South America in catfish.

Haven't found a cure, but it is a parasite, and fits the picture where you can see them at different developmental stages.

Here's a picture:

http://www.ohiodnr.com/wildlife/Fishing/pond/health.htm at the bottom, showing a tail infested by this parasite.

It develops mainly at the root of the fins, but also in other parts of the body. Typical for an armoured catfish that they come out in the softer tissue on the belly?

and a more technical study of this parasite:

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S15 ... xt&tlng=en

I might be way off on this one though, haven't seen it myself, so just guessing after doing some research.

Look forward to hearing the other members opinons!

husky_jim · Post by **husky_jim** » Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:08 pm

Thanks for your replies!I think McEve is right about it.I have ofcourse separate the fish and treat it with waterlife's Sterazin.
The bad thing is that i am living tommorow for 5 days for another business trip and i don't know what to do....

I also treat the rest of them just in case (half dose)...

smithrc · Post by **smithrc** » Sun Dec 18, 2005 11:34 pm

how are they doing??

are they definitely 183s?

yours looks just like mine - but i'm not sure what they are....

do yours look like these??

Caesars · Post by **Caesars** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 11:03 am

Smithrc, I just spoke to Jim about it, the infected one is sadly now resting in peace

- the others are fine.

INXS · Post by **INXS** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:29 pm

These are rosy minnows - feeders , bought over 3 years ago from a chain petstore and put in a quarantine tank. I was informed on another board that the tumor like growth was actually a parasite and if you would cut it open there would be a worm inside .
That was the last time I ever bought feeders.

I have to admit that this post , no matter how informative it is, makes me want to hurl.

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:03 pm

yellow grub is a worm too.... I didn't want to say anything about it straight out, as the gross-factor is just too much, and it doesn't have any real consequense for treatment or otherwise. Open the tumor and there's a worm in there. EWWWWW *shiver* YUCKYYYY

It shouldn't be contagious though, as the lifecycle is dependant on both birds and snails as I understand it...

I'm sorry you lost her Jim

Caesars · Post by **Caesars** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:09 am

I know I should have asked Jim but - it would be worth performing an autopsy on her to see what was inside. Yucky as it may be, it would be quite informative.

husky_jim · Post by **husky_jim** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:09 pm

i always 'open' the dead fish as i did with my beloved zebs but in this case i was away for a business trip so the friend that was looking them after throw it away...

smithrc
They are indeed L183.They have more darker coloration than yours and the white terminal band on the tail and on the dorsal fin is wider and more obvious.
I will take some pics later this day....

husky_jim · Post by **husky_jim** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 5:22 pm

Here is a tail pic of one of the males....

smithrc · Post by **smithrc** » Sun Jan 08, 2006 9:59 pm

have you noticed the band shrinking with age?

we were told they were 183 and that they are adult so the band has gone.

The are normally a lot blacker then the photos give them credit for.

Looks like we'll be finding out for real soon as i now have a cave full of wrigglers from them

I'll be dead chuffed if they do have the seams... but I'm not expecting them to.