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Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:24 pm
by Plastic Mac
Governments outside of Brazil are never going to ban the sale of zebras. I would bet my zebra's on it lol! They have far more worrying and pressing issues to deal with at 'home' to worry about one single fish which most politicians have never even heard of.
It's just, the greater the demand and the more it's mass produced, the cheaper things should be. That's how economics is. It's just, zebras breeders are like gas companies. Big colaboration on prices. "You don't like the price, don't buy it" mentality.
Yes economics does work like that. The more it's mass produced then invariably the cheaper it becomes. However that is not the case with zebra's at the moment. Whether you admit it or not, zebra's are not being mass produced, no where near enough to supply demand yet (and this isn't surprising when you consider their breeding process) and while the supply is low, then the price will rise and fluctuate until the supply is 'back to normal'. At which point the price will stabilize again. To try and induce a lower price for a product while the supply is low is pointless, it can't be done unless price fixing is involved, invariably by a third party, i.e. a government.
So what do you expect breeders to do, lower their prices below what people are prepared to pay? Do you really think that is achievable?
Plastic Mac
Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 9:13 pm
by Barbie
You've found a reason for the high prices, you just don't like it, so you keep rephrasing around it. Supply can't meet demand. You obviously think it is, but you're mistaken, honestly.
Not to mention, I was one of a hand full of people spawning these fish successfully, and due to circumstances beyond my immediate control, my fish were on hiatus for nearly 2 years. While I'm sure such a thing would never happen to you, I know MANY people that it took that long to get spawns with ADULTS, let alone with raising out fry.
I wish you nothing but good luck in your endeavor, but honestly, please, for the sake of the good will we're trying to encourage on the board, take a step back and look at what you're doing. Imagine if you like horses for example. You can find a plain grade horse for $500. You don't like it as well, you have your heart set on a Hanoverian sport horse. They're just horses, they aren't even restricted for export anywhere, but they ARE less available, and therefor, more expensive to get started with. It's just how the world works. It's not just zebras, and comparing them to gasoline prices is assinine. This isn't a huge conglomerate of breeders plotting to get rich off a breeding scheme. It takes hard work, it SUCKS when you lose fry, and you don't get much return in the end for what you put into it.
If you don't like it to the extent that you'll rant for days about it on a forum, why don't you go buy some other stripey fish! L134 are a very close second in the look alike department and readily available, with a much lower price tag. Why don't those work instead?
Barbie
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:35 am
by Jojoyojimbi
I like L134s... i've got some coming in this weekend...
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:31 am
by rhino
Barbie wrote:
If you don't like it to the extent that you'll rant for days about it on a forum, why don't you go buy some other stripey fish! L134 are a very close second in the look alike department and readily available, with a much lower price tag. Why don't those work instead?
Barbie
I like the L134's. Does anyone have any experience breeding them?
Did I mention I opened a savings account just for zebs!?
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:43 am
by chanettt
I like the L134's. Does anyone have any experience breeding them?
Did I mention I opened a savings account just for zebs!?
wow that is what i am doing right now, collect the money for zebra
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:56 am
by rhino
chanettt wrote:I like the L134's. Does anyone have any experience breeding them?
Did I mention I opened a savings account just for zebs!?
wow that is what i am doing right now, collect the money for zebra
So I take it that would be a yes?
Posted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:22 pm
by John
Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:21 am
by rhino
I wish my wife was'nt standing right behind me when I clicked on that link. " That fish has stripes just like the other one."
Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:14 pm
by Alistair
LMAO
Your lucky, my wife would have added 'And Danios don't hide all day'
Sorry to digress, don't want to trivialise the thread!
Re: Why is a Zebra Plec like a bank account?
Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:36 pm
by rhino
dave wrote:Well the answer is if you don't need a loan you can get one, if you have zebra plecs it seems that you can get more.
I'm doing it anyway, lets introduce 2 people a year to zebras, more if you have more fish, as it seems to me that people are paying the amounts of money asked out of sheer desperation.
If we can give people hope, and realistic hope, we may be able to prevent people keeping and stockpiling the fish for profit, but just because they love the fish.
I love Dave’s attitude. I wish I could be on the receiving end of his good nature. But I have a ways to go before I’m ready for some zebs. That’s not stopping me from striving for ownership. I just found someone who used to breed fish and no longer wants their equipment. Sure I’ll take it! That's one step closer to me being able to join the ranks of being a zeb breeder. (I passed on the 900-gallon tank he has.)
I just want to say thanks to all who have helped me! I hope to be around for a while. One day I will be posting pics of my fry.
If setting up a bank account is what it takes for me to one day be able to buy a bunch of zebs, so be it.
Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:22 pm
by Jojoyojimbi
just imagine how many zebras you could have put into a 900 gallon tank!
Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:39 pm
by John
Oops, sorry to tell you guys, my wife bought me 8 youngsters last year.
She owns one purse and is not for sale
LOL
Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:02 pm
by chanettt
John wrote:Oops, sorry to tell you guys, my wife bought me 8 youngsters last year.
She owns one purse and is not for sale
LOL
wow that's a lot! nice to have someone understand you and support in what you love.
Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:06 pm
by AndyAps.com
i have resisted posting so but would just like to say....
Zebra's are expensive, period, and like barbie says, no matter how much you rephrase the reasons they are still the same, Demand outweighs supply. Supply does NOT meet demand. if it did the price would be alot lower.
most of the people complaining about price dont have zeb's.
I have a colony of 18 Zebra Plecos, I spent ALOT of money and time locating negotiating and collecting my fish. I drove from sheffield UK to germany on 2 occasions to collect 13 of them, the other 5 from the uk. all in all to setup my breeding stock i have spent around £4000 sterling, This isnt a complaint it was my choice, if it was to expensive i wouldnt pay.
So now my Zebras breed, am i meant to sell the Zebras cheap or give them away? NO WAY
My plan is to sell them at market price (read "market price" not extortian, im not holding anyone to randsome) to recoup my expenditure, when i have regained my £4000 then i will rethink my position.
I appreciate my view is going to gain me some criticism and more however i am well within my right to state my thoughts and the main thought is "why should i end up £4000 out of pocket just so Tom wully or Harry can keep Zebra's on the cheap?
I also Breed L260 queen arabesque, i dont have people complaining about these selling at market price.......
Hi
Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2006 12:57 pm
by dave
Referring to the Andy aps post in particular.
And referring to the market price which varies from 0 to £200 from adverts I've seen and to my own personal experience.
Economics supply and demand etc is repeatedly mentioned, and we all place a value on our own time. But more importantly our employers and those who are self-employed their clients place a true value on it by paying cash for it.
Now consider the cost of say producing 50 quality young, and the efforts and costs that Andy has incurred are probably are familiar to a number of members of this site have incurred.
Say these were sold for £5000.
Say these took 2 years to produce.
To maximise production, I guess most people keep more than one tank (especially if they are dealing with above 15 of these fish ), say for arguements sake 3 tanks.
So using £4000 outlay as a guideline, 2 hours a week maintenance on each tank, that is 600 hours approx.
So after 2 years a breeder where this model applies ( and remember the initial outlay could have been placed in the bank to gain interest ) and remember no account has been taken of electricity used, food bought, has made a profit of £1000, and that works out at £1.33 per hour.
Personally I don't think this can be called profiteering.
And while different people offer fish at different rates, I still consider people who offer fish at the higher end of the price range to be offering a bargain.
Dave
