ZebraPleco.com • The complete Hypancistrus zebra resource

i personally dont think shipping in ziploc bags is a good way of shipping live fish.

no personal attack or anything since the thread didnt include both parties. i just vented my own experience with poor shipping decisions and i commend what you are doing octoberoo4 with the low priced zebras but the ziploc bags are dont seem suiting.

Another true story..

I ordered 20 Zebra fry from Lonnie (October004). I'd already done my homework, seen posts from NetsuaiAngel and lrry93 (both have over 100 posts so not made-up aquabid feedback) that they'd ordered from Lonnie in the past and had a good experience. You might remember me as the skeptic who passed on those imaginary Zebras in Florida.

I think we spoke on the 'phone three times the day I ordered them. I asked Lonnie all the questions I could think of. I knew what a 3/4"-1" baby pleco was gonna look like 'cos I have pleco fry of my own. I checked the details on his live arrival guarantee and when we were both satisfied (he that I wasn't BSing him, I think, and I that the deal was set) I sent funds.


When the shipment was sent, Lonnie called with my tracking number and next day I waited for the delivery. When the box arrived, I had two sets of packs the same as those pictured earlier in this thread (albeit with two heat packs). In my case, three of the fry didn't survive the journey - all three in the same bag, the lower of the two packs. My guess is that the babies may have been squashed into a corner although I'll never know for sure.

I called Lonnie, spoke to his wife (I believe), took pics, then opened the bags, checked the water temperature (86f) and put the 17 fry on a drip. Later in the day Lonnie got back to me and said if I sent the fry back to him he'd replace the three lost fry or reimburse me. I opted for replacement, put the three in a Ziplock in a small padded mailer and sent them back.

Lonnie told me he'd have some more fry within about a week and to pick a day. In between times, this fuss all started up.

Lonnie has clearly sold Zebra fry before so if he's had success sending the fish the way he sends them I'm not sure I see the issue - after all, he was the one who stood to lose if they didn't make it.

Anywho.. Lonnie said he'd alter the bagging to reduce the possibility of squashing the fry and this is how the three replacements arrived:



The inner bag was taped to eliminate the corner (I'd already removed the outer bag when I took this photo). Aside from that, I think the single heat pack was slightly removed from the top of the bag by a bit of the insulation. Water temp was 82f on arrival.


One side note with the second shipment: I watched the UPS guy walk up my path with the box. He initially had it upside down, then apparently realized and actually tossed it up in the air with a spin and caught it so it was the right way up! This despite the "This way up" and "Fragile" signs all over the box.


I wouldn't hesitate to go back to Lonnie again if I was in the market for Zebra fry. There aren't many people willing to part with Zebra fry, and fewer still at the price Lonnie does them at. He held up his end of the deal and when three were lost the first time round they were replaced at my convenience without question. Had tmh0324 asked for replacement instead of backing out of the deal, I would have to believe his fish would've been replaced too.


In the spirit of the elections.. Only I approved this message.

i agree with pete, backing out of the deal does show a bit of buyer's remorse.

they are tiny when fry and a 1" looks much smaller in person. i personally would have asked for replacements since that was the initial agreement. i havent purchased any zebras from lonnie but have spoke to him in a couple of emails and he seems to be a stand up guy spreading the joys of zebra plecos.

I'd buy from lonnie if there weren't breeders within 30 minutes of me with 20+ available each month...

Thanks guys...

IMO it is one of those things, Lonnie seems to have more successes than failures.

In saying this I think the fish are a bit too small to ship overnight.

I have had about 10 deliveries of fish shipped to me of various species overnight, 100% success.

In addition, when dealing with fish of this size, any deformities are only likely to become apparent when they grow out.

I have purchased fish at this size, and it became apparent to me that 2 out of 16 were snubnoses some months later, quite a high percentage.

In saying this I have let fish go at between 6 and 8 months (Collection only), where the people who took them selected their own fish, and if they grow out with deformities I have offered them an exchange.

I have to say that I think the shipper is at fault sending the fish so young, the purchaser seems only to be concerned about how out of pocket they are. The shipper at the end of the day is concerned about his reputation.

At the end of the day, I hope this site is about the welfare of the fish, but this seems to have been missed in this thread.

Dave

There are definate risks to shipping fishes and especially with such small ones. It's common sense that their little bodies just do not handle the stress and fluctuations nearly as well as larger sized fishes. Which even more so would incline a shipper to take extra caution when preparing shipment of such fishes.

I agree.. plecos at 3/4" to 1" are very small indeed and the size difference is very dramatic.. whether or not the buyer was aware of the size difference is a different question. Any shipper willing to ship at less than one inch is taking some risk himself and any buyer who is willing to ask someone to ship at that size better understand the risks as well.

Ultimately... Who makes the last call on how a group of fishes is prepared for shipping? What kind of packaging materials to use? What weather conditions to ship or not? What level of service to use for shipping of certain fishes? Whether or not to require signature confirmations or insure against lost packages? All these things are in the shipper's sole control and better judgement should always prevail against luck.

This is where communications need to be very clear and nothing taken for granted.

In my opinion, this post would be best served if it was simply taken as experience learned for both parties.. instead of the direction I see it going now where people are simply testifying for each other's reputation. What good will that do for anyone? or for the Zebras in Zebra heaven now? Or for any other zebras whose life may be put at risk in the future?

I will not argue about how this fish got packaged but I will share my expereience buying from Lonnie.

I have probably purchased more fish from Lonnie then anyone on this site. I would say well over 20 Zebs and around 20 more different species plecos. I have not had any deaths. I live in Hawaii and it is sure alot more flight time then any of the mainland shipments. I even had a incident with fish getting held up at department of agriculture for more then 36 hours. More like 48 I believe and had not one death. They were in there original shipping bags the whole time. Lonnie has always called everytime he shipped out with a tracking number and even followed up after every shipment. He has never been anything but professional from his service to his packing for me. He has became the only person I trust to do buisness with as far as purchasing fish. I have been ripped off a few times.

Bottom Line is:Lonnie sells quality fish for a low price with Great service.

Even if I had a fish that died from him I would not expect shipping back. I know in previous post he has stated shipping will not be covered for DOA