Discus baby feeding problem

[Des]

Hi Discus fans,

Does any one have any success artificially rearing baby discus?.


I have a pair of "New variety" Discus (White with red spots) that have laid , but the fry when free swimming were not interested in feeding off the parents and died from starvation. .
I tried the egg paste recipe ,but they did not take it. Have heard that in the US , some breeders use dried APR ( artificial plankton and rotifers) but cannot obtain it in the UK.
They have laid another batch yesterday, which should be free swimming by Friday.
Tried to get another "normal" pair Blue checkerboard/Red turquiose to lay by taking away their 3 week old fry, so that I could use them as foster parents but still havent laid.

Regards,
Des.

[sid]

Hi Des
I have raised fry on the backs of white discus before.....but it takes a lot of practice.First,gentle lower the ph.........maybe to 5 or so ,this helps the fish to produce more mucous..................2nd.lower the height of the water in the tank to the height of the adults...........soon the fry will bump into the parents and start to feed................if that dont work..........take out the heater ,and the sponge filter for 24 hrs till the fry settle onto the backs of the parents ,but dont take out the heater if the tank aint in a fish house where its warm.
The above will work.you just have to be patient.....i take it is a young pair you have ....they will get better the more times they spawn.collecting up the fry.............but lowering the ph and water level will do the biz..trust me ..........im a discus doctor lol.
Have never raised em on there own................was going to suggest the egg paste method............remember though .you havr to use a clean bowl for every feeding ................so the water dont get mucky..........smear the egg paste on the rim of the bowl .leave to harden then raise the water level till the paste is submerged..........let the fry feed for an hour or so ...............then remove the fry to another bowl....alot of work if you are doing that 5-6 times a day eh?

Good luck matie

Sid

[Des]

Hi Sid,

Thanks for your answer,Yes I believe they are new parents,
Conductivity is just below 100micro siemens,Ph is around 6, but find that 25% go white almost immediately ( within 24 hrs),50 % stay opaque and only 25 % hatch.
I got a lot of info from the discus Holland site.I tried reducing the level to 50% last time. This time it is about 70% about 9". I also followed their recipe of mixing hard boiled egg yolk with fresh mixed egg to make a paste but they did not take it.
Will try and reduce the ph.
What is the problem with these "white" varietes, is it that they dont produce enough mucous ? or is it that due to the lack of bars the babies are not attracted to the sides of the parents?.
Just today a friend of mine gave me some dried egg yolk ( which I had difficulty in obtaining)which I mixed to a paste , applied it to some old slate tile , dried it then placed into the tank, with the adults. The babies did start to feed of this after a while.
Will try to coordinate the next breeding so that I can foster the babies to the another "normal" pair.

Here is a picture of the pair of White cloud leopard skin discus



What do you think of the above pair?

LOL .I too am a Discus Doc, though never had the need to specialise as a Paedratician before !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards,
Des

[KenW]

Des,

you have some beautiful discus. My understanding from a friend who has bred many of the white varieties with red spots, half red/half white, etc. is that they generally do not produce enough slime to feed the babies. He uses a surrogate pair that produce slime to raise the fry once free swimming. His website is http://www.bmsdiscus.com/index.html. Check it out.

Ken

[sid]

Hi Guys.................its an old wifes tale that they dont produce enough mucous.......why should they be any different from say a .em blue discus .........different genetics fair enough .........but still the same fish.
I learnt the trick from robin futtrel of rare breed discus ,she used to do it with pigeon bloods.....................lower the ph dude.................take everytrhing out the tank.................and they will find the parents .they have no other option.......what size tank they in des?...maybe its too big...get em in a smaller tank..........after all,they just stil and fan the eggs in ones spot dont they ......ive bred them in 18=12=12 befroe with no problem.

HTH

Sid

[Des]

Ken ,

Thanks for your comments.
I was never into these "new type" varietes, but they have grown on me. They were from Chen, from FishKingDiscus in Taiwan who has won quite a few Discus Championships recently.
I tried going to the website you recommended but comes up with "Unable to open page".
I too wanted to use foster parents , but they did not breed at the same time. They are at this moment cleaning the cone in preperation of egglaying ( a week too late).

Sid,

The tank they are in is 18x12x15 high.
I did reduce the PH this afternoon. Next time I will try removing the very large sponge filter.
I was also reading on UKDA on a forum , a comment about extra mucous production when using "stress coat", so intentionally used some last night.
I had heard the "trick " of reducing the water level so that they can find the parents a lot easier on a Malaysian discus website.
Yesterday most were looking for food on the waters surface so tried my version of egg paste, which they fortunately took to.
This morning there were more than 30 fry on the parents. I think that additional food gave them that little bit extra energy till they found the mucous on the parents. Have stopped the paste food and see how it goes.
Any idea why the babies of these white varieties have difficulty in finding the mucous on the parents?.

Regards,
Des.

[KenW]

Sorry Des,

Somehow that link did not work. Hope this one works.

http://www.bmsdiscus.com/

Ken

[sid]

Hi Des...............the fry cant find the mucous.........because they can find the parents..............see the fry are attracted to dark objects.........thats why threy sometimes go to the sponge ect.
I find if the fry swim at the top hwen they come off............they have come off to early and are not ready ............once hatched .turn the temp down .this will allow them to develope properly, swimblader ect as low as 78-80 will do the job .................but the fancier the strain .the weaker the fry ..........so they need more care.
HTH bud

[Des]

Hi Sid,

Thanks for all the advice.
Things seem to be going well at the moment with about 30/40 fry feeding of the parents, their tummies bulging , unlike the 3 days previous. They also started taking microworm this evening ,4th day after free swimming
I did reduce the water height by another couple of inches and also reduced the ph.
Will try the reducing temp idea next time.
By the way my temp is 86F. What temp did you have your breeders in?


Ken,

The picture on the front page of your friends website look the same variety as mine. It looks as if he also buys from Fishking discus in Taiwan, where mine came from.
I did look at his website , very nice, but it was more focused towards sales of Discus and products and couldnt find any useful breeding and rearing info.

Regards,
Des.

[sid]

Temp is no higher than 82........as i find i get a better hatch rate.as the sperm is more active at lower temps.............why ya think god but our "bits" in a sac outside the body?...........to keep em cool and more fertile lol

[KenW]

Hi Des,

Your right. The friend of mine is doing the discus and product stuff as a side business to his regular seafood business. He does get many of his discus from fishking and I believe he is one of their US distributors. He also breeds some of those varieties along with importing them. He began as a discus hobbist but soon found connections to fishking.