Is this fin rot??

If it isn't to late, and you're desperately looking for some advice, hopefully someone can help you out.

Mindy
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Post by Mindy »

I'm very sorry to hear your zeb didn't make it.

I was wondering about something though. Before, you said it was fine and eating, etc, as if nothing was wrong. Then you took it out and treated it... I wonder if that handling caused more stress? I know you took in on good advice, and I would never dispute that advice, as it's clearly something that has worked in the past. I'm only saying it because if it was me, I would be worried about too much handling causing stress at a time when it's defenses were already low. How would others balance the decision - leave it to try and heal itself, or try and keep the wounds from getting infected and risk the stress of handling. I'm not sure if that would be an issue or not but thought I would put my thoughts out as I would like to know what people's thoughts were on this. My lot have not started such ferocious battles yet, but it's best to be prepared for when they do...
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Post by Adam »

I'm so sorry that your zebra didn't make it Valhallan :cry: .

It seems a bit strange that it died from the damage it sustained, I suspect that it may have had other problem(s) too. Fin damage like that doesn't normally result in death unless it has become heavily infected and that wasn't the case with your zebra. A while back I operated on one of my zebras that had a pretty nasty growth on it's pectoral fin, ended up amputating quite a bit of the fin. This fish has now made a full recovery but it was touch and go for a while. I really do think that it is a case of knowing just when to intervene. Too early and you could inadvertently make the problem worse, too late and the fish may not be able to survive the stresses of treatment.

Sorry mate :cry: .
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Post by valhallan »

Thanks for your thoughts :(

I'm pretty bummed about this whole thing, but I know that I tried to help him out, and I just have to remember that. Rob, you guys and everyone who replied was awesome, it's not that you weren't enough help, I just think I didn't catch it fast enough. Adam, I know you lost a zeb recently too, I guess misery loves company huh? :evil:

I agree that there must have been something else going on, and I probably aggravated it by moving him to a different tank. But as far as I'm concerned, that couldn't be helped as the tank he was in also had a trap with fry and I'm not willing to add medication to a tank with fry in it. I also thought that maybe he would have been better left alone, but the reason I posted here is because I wanted input from people more experienced than myself, and that's exactly what I got. I am extremely grateful for it too, btw. I'm sure that the treatment(s) suggested would have worked if I had have acted sooner, and I'm almost positive that it was something secondary that killed him. In the end it's just one of those things that happens when you don't know exactly what to do at exactly the right time, and you just have to learn from it.

Val
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Post by Des »

Valhallan,
As stated on another part of this forum, I too lost a large male zebra today from a fight 2 nights ago, though it was with another Hypancistrus not another zebra. It is pretty hard to get used to this loss. It is also difficult to understand how male zebras prefer to use their fight response rather than their flight response.Sometimes they dont seem to know when to quit.!!! Maybe thats why its best to keep only one male per breeding tank.
I hope you dont mind me asking, but have you ever used Iodine on youself on any cuts or bruises/broken skin?. I was treated with Iodine by my Dad when I was young . I used to run a mile when the Iodine bottle came out, I would rather suffer my cuts and bruises then the "stinging" of the Iodine. Later he found that Mercurochrome had the same benifits without the sting.
Regards,
Des.
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Post by valhallan »

Hi Des,

Yes, I've put iodine on broken skin before, and yes, it hurt like hell at the time. Are you suggesting that it might have been too much of a shock for the already stressed zeb? I must say it crossed my mind, but I didn't think it would be an issue because zebras (and fish in general) have a far less developed nervous system than humans. I understand that fish can feel pain to a degree, but I would have thought that a "sting" would be a bit beyond them. I'll have to do some research I think.

Val
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Post by Barbie »

I started using Iodine on injuries on my fish after it was recommended by Shane Linder at Planet Catfish. It works beautifully to seal raw sites to keep them from getting infected. Any idea how safe it is to use mercurichrome in water?

On a side note, Iodine is also used to seal the navel on new born horses, to prevent them from getting navel ill. Horses DO have an advanced nervous system, and the foals don't like it. I wouldn't ever skip the step though, personally. I've seen what can happen when it doesn't get done.

I've used the iodine as a treatment successfully for more than a year now. I wouldn't recommend something to other hobbyists that I hadn't personally had good success with, I promise.

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Post by valhallan »

Barbie wrote:
I've used the iodine as a treatment successfully for more than a year now. I wouldn't recommend something to other hobbyists that I hadn't personally had good success with, I promise.

Barbie

Just to clear something up. I was really just more interested in Des' point than anything else. I would never have tried using the iodine if I thought you would suggest something that would hurt my zeb more, and I wouldn't dream of blaming you or anyone else for its death. I'm sincerely grateful that everyone helped out as much as they did. I'm still new to keeping zebs, and I need as much input from others as I can get to do the best I can for them.

Val
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Post by Mindy »

And I didn't mean to cause offence either. I was really just throwing some thoughts out onto the table so see what people thought generally. :wink:
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Post by McEve »

I think you have a valid point Mindy, one that deserves to be discussed further. We know that stress can reduce the immune system - could stress also lead to death? Stress + physical injury, which is already causing the fish a great deal of stress.....

I think genereally speaking it's best to leave the fish alone to heal, if possible shielded from the others, but still in the same enviroment. On the other hand I think there's no doubt that aactively treating a fish, be it by handling and swabbing or otherwise, would have saved quite a few fish in the past. I guess the hard part is to know when to intervene....
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Post by Des »

Barbie,

I too wasnt having a go at you. I knew you wouldnt recommend something you havent tried yourself
I was just a little concerned that Valhallan said a large % of the fish was coloured through the Iodine and wondered whether too large an area had been treated instead of just the "open" wounds. Just putting it into perspective, a foals belly button is pretty small compared to its whole body area.
I only mentioned Mercurochrome because it was used on me as a child. I have never used it on fish so dont know its toxicity.
In his book "Discus Health" by Dieter Untergasser, which I have just gone through,he mentions the use of Nystatin ( I think he means ointment) on injury sites to prevent Fungal infections which are deadly. I know mine was badly fungused before it died and believe Valhallans was too. I have used Nystatin before but in liquid form for a baby parrot that had a fungal crop infection.

Regards,
Des.
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