Development of L046 -Can you help-

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A1player
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Development of L046 -Can you help-

Post by A1player »

HI,thanks for reading my question .I am the happy owner of 9 unsexed Zebs & have set up a tank just for them just as the person who i bought them from had his tank set up ie water ,lighing feeding etc, so i know the setup is good as he has no problems breeding & keeping his fish in top form.
The fish are about 8 months old & about 1" in size so can anyone who has had Zebs from young tell me how there growth goes as they dont seem to be growing very fast yet i have been told that they can breed from 18-24 months onwards which seems a little soon looking at how they seem to take a long time to grow .So at what age do they become fully grown & a what age able to breed.And how many adults can be kept together without problems in a 4 foot 12" deep x 18"high tank with 18 nice caves fine sand base & bog wood.At the moment all 9 spend there time all in one group.
Any info on the above would be great.
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Post by Jo's Zebs »

Your set up sound fine although for 9 fish you don't really need 18 caves. In that size tank they will all live together in a colony just fine as adults. Zebs growth rate is slow but not as slow as some plecos at a couple of years old you may well see some breeding action but this is no exact science, just feed them well and do regular water changes. For them to stay together and hide near each other is very normal.
Hope this helps
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Post by Zebrapl3co »

I don't know who says that it takes 18 - 24 months, he/she must have been thinking about BN plecos. I think your intuition is correct. There is no way they will breeding in 24 months. I think the earliest you might be looking at would be at least 3 years. I've heard rumours from Asia that if hormone treated, they can be done in three years. But if done naturally, at least 3 years if not longer.
I don't think they really need 18 caves, but I like the concept of having more choices rather than having not enough and risk them fighting over it.
As your observation have already told you. They all bunched up together, this is a very natural zebra fry behaviour. They will continue to do so until they hit adutlesson. Then, one or two will break out of the grown and eventually, each one will claim it's only cave. Then you can try to breed them. But otherwise, keep doing water changes and feed the healthy food. It's going to be a long process, so enjoy them.

Oh and one last thing, I agreed with Jo, 4' tank is good enough for 9 adult zebras to live confortable. Just make sure you have some currents going to let them play and excersies at night. This helps them grow bigger faster.
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Post by Line »

Hello Zebrapl3co

Sorry, but I think, I have to disagree slightly with your statements. :)

You see, I run an statistic database. A fellow breeder and good friend of mine naturally register every spawn there. It came so, that I bought 20 youngsters from him.
Exactly 15,5 Month from hatch - they spawned.
The spawns are (still) very very small.

Other german breeders mentions spawns with 18 Month of age. But I think, that I till now have the record :wink:

..
@A1player:
To the development of your Zeb's, I would say that 1 Inch with 8 Month of age ist far to little. They have this size almost before 3 month of age. After 3 month of age their growth slow down a lot - but with 1 year they should have at least 2 inches.

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Line
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Re: Development of L046 -Can you help+10 L046's need home

Post by A1player »

A1player wrote:HI,thanks for reading my question .I am the happy owner of 9 unsexed Zebs & have set up a tank just for them just as the person who i bought them from had his tank set up ie water ,lighing feeding etc, so i know the setup is good as he has no problems breeding & keeping his fish in top form.
The fish are about 8 months old & about 1" in size so can anyone who has had Zebs from young tell me how there growth goes as they dont seem to be growing very fast yet i have been told that they can breed from 18-24 months onwards which seems a little soon looking at how they seem to take a long time to grow .So at what age do they become fully grown & a what age able to breed.And how many adults can be kept together without problems in a 4 foot 12" deep x 18"high tank with 18 nice caves fine sand base & bog wood.At the moment all 9 spend there time all in one group.
Any info on the above would be great.

Thanks to all that have give me help.Im a little worried about the size now of my Pleco's as they are only 1" at 8 months.Can anyone give help on feeding them up to get growth up a little.
Thanks again
Steve.
Ps i have been offered 10 more L046's from the same person who i bought mine but the friend who wanted them has decided not to take them & now im left with them as i said i wanted the 10 & feel i should still take them as they have been kepted for me/friend & with no space in my setup means i cant keep them .If i buy them is anyone intereted in the 10 ,6 months old & all healthy L046's & would need collecting from Henley On Thames.
Let me know if your interested with contact info & we cant have a chat to see if we can work things out.
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Post by zeberdy »

Line..I can also back up your statement as I recently had a spawn from from a Zebra that is less than two years old. The brood was as small as it could be with just one fry but very nice all the same.
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Post by TwoTankAmin »

Not to hijack the thread, but I wonder if it could be that tank raised zebras will reach spawning size faster than they would in the wild. We are all feeding our fish a wide variety of nutritious food regularly. In the wild I doubt they have such a full and regular diet year round. Many of us also keep tank temps on the warm side unlike in the wild where water temps can vary seasonally?

Is it possible that life in a tank actually accelerates the maturation process?
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Post by KnaveTO »

that is a interesting thought there TTA... and pretty much goes for any species that we keep and breed
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Post by Line »

Hello

As far as I know the temperature of Xingu isn't influenced that much seasonally.

Looking here - http://www.biotopaquarium.de/wasserwert ... erterx.htm

then we don't keep the Zebras warmer either.

To put it short.. I would say "Bigger in the nature - older in the aquarium".

I would say our variaty and quality of food will never get close to that of the nature. And the aquarium water probably never of better quality.

I presume maturity isn't (only) due to the size - but to the age too.
If they spawn earlier under our conditions - perhaps it is because of the lack of older and stronger individuals - claiming the better spawning places. Not only males are fighting for the best places - also females are fighting for their favorite male.
I could imagine, that younger individuals in the nature simply have to wait untill they are big and strong enough.

But I can only pass on my thoughts. I really don't know it for a fact.
Though I think I've heard the "alpha.." thing metioned quite a lo :D t. So we have experienced it ourselves. "The alpha pair rules the tank", not? :wink:
And the younger ones just waiting for their chance...

@A1player : what are you feeding your Zebs? Are all of them that small?

As to the new 10: They could join the others for a while - no problem. I would say the tank is big enough for that. But at some time, they would need their own tank. Or you could sell them.
However, It would be nice to find out, why they are so small. If the breeder isn't bringing them up probably, you shouldn't buy more. Otherhand, if something isn't that optimal in your tank, it would be nice to find out, before more are added.

You could try to describe your setup a little more.
Other fish, filtration, temperature, conductivity or hardness of the water, PH, nitrate level, plants, substrate, bogwood and so on...


Best regards
Line
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Post by Plastic Mac »

I think the discrepency in growth rates comes down to the care they recieve from the owner. Daily water changes and small but regular feeds throughout the day seem to give far better growth results than the normal water changes and feeds which most people give. I know one breeder who gets their zebs to 1" in 6 months by giving daily water changes and small, multiple daily feeds.
But most can't devote that much time hence why some zebs take anything up to 12 months to reach 1".

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Post by Line »

Hello Plastic Mac

Quite interesting. You see, I have always practised daily water changes.
And my youngsters for sure reach 1 inch - but within 3 months of age. My spawn of 30.10.07 are already close to an inch.

But I change a lot of water, run an UVC and so on. Think, this is important.

I only feed evenings. I think this suits their natural rythm. Eating in the night, and just sleep/digest the day over. It seems to work pretty well. Perhaups I'm just lazy *laugh*, so I only have to vaccum once a day. I need time for all the waterchanges LOL.

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Post by Zebrapl3co »

Hi Line,

Thank you for your reply. This puts a big spin on my perspective. But yes, you are correct, it is possible to get them to hit around 1" in 3 - 4 months time. I've seen this happening to my fry that I gave to a friend of mine. He basically feeds them four times a day and do water change 1 per 2 days. The food is basically blood worm, bbs and chopped up fishes, mussels as well as NLS growth on the days he's too busy to prep the food.
Do you mind if I as what do you feed them?
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Post by Line »

Hello

Common tablets, granulates for discus and my own recipe for frozen food. The ones, you can find everywhere and improve yourself with your own fantasy ;) I f.ex. add a little garlic. Good to prevent worms / parasites and it keeps the digestion fit.
They get absolutely no common industrial frozen food (bloodworms and so on) - only occasionally frozen artemia.

Best regards
Line
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