Any one answer this question please??

Poshpleco · Post by **Poshpleco** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:14 pm

Hiya, I have had a few spawns so far and I need some advice. I would like to know if anyone has suffered with wrigglers coming out of the egg and there egg sack splitting or having a hole in it. My babies end up losing all there egg yolk on the bottom of the breebing trap then dying. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Tracey.

Zebrapl3co · Post by **Zebrapl3co** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 5:45 pm

I would first assume that something is wrong with the breeder trap and it's cutting the eggs.
Is the breeder trap the soft net ones or the hard plastic ones? If it's the net one, it might be because there are other fish that tried to eat them through the net. For the hard ones, does the bottom of the breeder trap have holes? If it does, then it might be because the holds where cut too sharp an angle.
I've had my share of fry death, but this is not a common thing. The only time I have a yoke burst on me was when I took them out too early and the turkey baster I used to suck them up was too strong, and this injured the hatching. On that batch, there where bent spins and broken yoke sacks. Most, like %80 of the fry died on that batch.

Post by **TwoTankAmin** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:56 am

I realize folks do things in different ways. However, I have never understood why folks remove pleco eggs to hatch in a breeder trap. One of the primary attractions that got me into to spawning plecos is that the dad's do all the work when it comes to caring for eggs and getting them to the free swimming stage.

I never pull the eggs to a trap and have been quite happy with the results.

Post by **Barbie** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 6:54 pm

That sounds to me like something trying to suck them through the net possibly. Are there any other fish in the tank?

I always removed my fry from the zebra plecos when they were almost ready to leave the cave, if I was going to. Dad is great at taking care of them and rarely do I lose a spawn that way. Just my personal experience. I also have the tanks set up as species tanks with a lot of hiding places though, too.

Barbie

Zebrapl3co · Post by **Zebrapl3co** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 4:02 pm

TwoTankAmin wrote:I realize folks do things in different ways. However, I have never understood why folks remove pleco eggs to hatch in a breeder trap. One of the primary attractions that got me into to spawning plecos is that the dad's do all the work when it comes to caring for eggs and getting them to the free swimming stage.

I never pull the eggs to a trap and have been quite happy with the results.

Well, I don't know about the other people. But I am guessing that this goes the same with them too.
After countless fry deaths, and I hate myself for this, but I do mean countless, I've learn to be a better dad than the zebra dad.
Plus I can keep an eye out for deformaties as well. After all, only 1/4 or 1/6 th is suppposed to survive in the wilds you know. I've manage to keep them to %90 - %100 survival rate.

Poshpleco · Post by **Poshpleco** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 6:43 pm

Hiya, thanks for your replys so far. My Zebs are in a species only tank. My breeding trap is a plastic one and it does not have any holes in the bottom. I thought it could be that there was something in the trap, but I checked it and there are no rough bits at all. I take my eggs from the male the day before they hatch because he just waves them out of the cave as they hatch. I tip them into breeding trap so I don't use a baster. I had a 23 hatch from this clutch of eggs, I ended up with 18 still alive at the moment. The last batch of eggs I had hatch I had 15 and 3 of those ended up with there yolk splitting.

Thanks Tracey

Zebrapl3co · Post by **Zebrapl3co** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:00 pm

Oh, if that's the case, then it's an easy fix. I think you took them out too early. As I have stated on my first post. That was one of my early mistakes.
This is how I do mine, if I choose to grow them out in a breeding trap.
Day 1 - eggs are laid, or parents sharing caves
Day 6/7 - you took your eggs out ( I don't recomend this)
Day 7/8 - eggs hatch, not all at once. DO NOT TOUCH!
Day 8/9 - wigglers get kicked out (this can be any amount of reasons:
- wiggler was rejected by the dad
- wiggler have yet to develop a strong suction and was accidentally kicked out by dad.)
This is the time I flush them out, not an easy task and very stressful for dad zebra. You run the risk of scaring him into not breeding for 1/2 a year or so. But if you are a pretty good at triggering or you are having luck. It's OK. Also, this is when it's the easiest to flush them out as their suction mouth aren't strong enough to keep them in the cave.

Day 9-14 - it get's more difficult to flush them out with each passing day. You will know that you are late by 1 or 2 days when you see their colour starting to develop. By the end of the 14 day, you can see the stripes. Their yoke sacs are just about used up.

Day 14-21 - starvation period. Learn to eat or die.

Day 21- 35 - This is where things get difficult and sad. It's very easy to loose the entire batch here. If you aren't doing it right, food, water parameters or what have you. This is the biggest hurdle for a zebra fry. Go pass this mark and you'll have a bit easier time.

3 months - for some odd reason a few died around this period. I am guess that it's from the stress they endure during their day 21 - 35 period. 1 or 2 just decided to die, even on a full stomach.

6 months - Hurray! As long as you don't do anything stupid, which I do now and then. They are fully on their way and independent of you.

siming1 · Post by **siming1** » Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:10 pm

I agree with leaving the eggs with the father, and would concentrate thinking why he's kicking them out.

Why not try a longer cave?

Are you being to inquisitive and stressing him?

Is there a male in the tank trying to make him loose the clutch?

Past experience has told me that the male zebra is a much better at the job than me, they grow much quicker aswell.

andrewcoxon · Post by **andrewcoxon** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:00 am

hi guys,

i take my eggs out the day they are due to hatch and place them in a plastic trap with an airstone and i get a 90% success rate (so far). so i dont think its as clear cut as that. all i can suggest is keep trying different things, i used to loose fry at that stage but my problems we're due to high nitrate. whats your nitrate reading at?

thanks

siming1 · Post by **siming1** » Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:16 pm

Hi andrew how do you know when your eggs are going to hatch?

Being in the back of a dark cave with a fish in front of them there going to be pretty hard to see right?

Do you judge by when the female leaves the cave?

Poshpleco · Post by **Poshpleco** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:27 pm

Hi Siming,

siming1 wrote:I agree with leaving the eggs with the father, and would concentrate thinking why he's kicking them out.

Why not try a longer cave?

Are you being to inquisitive and stressing him?

Is there a male in the tank trying to make him loose the clutch?

Past experience has told me that the male zebra is a much better at the job than me, they grow much quicker aswell.

Answer to your questions, The male's cave is 1 1/2 times his length, I never shine a torch in his cave because its not a position to do so plus I kind of know when things are going on in there so I don't need too. Last question there is not another male male in there that would hassle him that I know of. We watch them on digital camera through the night and haven't seen any hassle yet.

Andrew, in answer to your question the Nitrate is between 5, 10.

Thanks Tracey.