Your average brood size

gecko · Post by **gecko** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 7:00 am

Hi All

My colony has been breeding regularly but I noticed that I get about 5 to 8 fry each time. This is no where near what I read of 12 to 15 each time from other breeders.

My alpha male is 3.5" and female 3" TL, big and storky adults.

Is that normal or I am missing something in my setup?

All advise and opinions appreciated.

Line · Post by **Line** » Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:46 am

Hi

It's a little hard to say - knowing so little about your setup. Perhaps you could describe it a little more.

Following could influence:

1) Age of fishes (very young - very old). Probably only fish in their best age will produce the big spawns.
2) Their condition (sufficient and good food)
3) "Temperament" of the father (eating eggs) or other males as stressfactor
4) Water Quality (perhaps an UVC could bring something. I use it myself - some other breeders too. You dont have to use it permantly - just while spawning / hatching and so on). Oxygene, current is of course always worth paying attention.
5) What kind of filtration do you have? An very old one could also influence negatively.
6) What kind of bottom? Bare, gravel, sand? Everything healthy here?

Just a couple of ideas. Perhaps you get inspired

I have on my site 76 spawns registed till now - totally 670 fry - the biggest spawn with 21 and an average of 7 ! So you are lying quite normal

Best regards
Line

gecko · Post by **gecko** » Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:02 am

Thanks Line, that was comprehensive. I will have to put mine down to age. Will keep track and see if the broods get bigger in the future.

chanettt · Post by **chanettt** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:39 am

i got only 1 fry from my first spawn and now after 3 spawns, i got only 6 frys left. half of them die with unknown reason. i am not really sure how to keep them alive as some of them not really want to eat anything and die because they are really thin. by the way i keep all of them in the main tank with all the other zebs.

smithrc · Post by **smithrc** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:43 pm

It depends - If you counting eggs - I'll have to say about 20.

Fry from those normally 15-18.

Then comes my problem stage.

fry past 20mm - about 8.

Hopefully the new setup with bare bottom will alter this and I'll be getting 20 fry per spawn

.

Plastic Mac · Post by **Plastic Mac** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:59 pm

I've never had a spawn of less than ten and probably rarely more then 15..averages out around 12 I'd guess.

Stevie.K · Post by **Stevie.K** » Mon Dec 03, 2007 10:12 pm

My biggest female has produced 23 from her first spawn, 18 2nd spawn & i guess 15 + that are 4 weeks old but still being looked after by dad.

A smaller female in another tank has had batches of around 8, she had been trapped for the last 2 days & i saw her leave the cave around a hour ago, had a crafty look & their is a batch of eggs at the back

I guess its down to the size, maturity & age of the female & of course the expertise of the male who is looking after the eggs & fry!

Just keep them well feed & the water quality spot on & they will do fine

Post by **TwoTankAmin** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:07 am

You mayl find this hard to believe, but I have no idea how to answer that question accurately, even after 24 spawns. All of the spawns have been in only two caves which are crudely made slate caves, very tight fit and siliconed together sloppily enough that there are beads inside the caves. I have never been sure I even have eggs until they become wigglers, when I can spot the movement at the back of the cave under pop's head. Silicone beads don't get wigglers

Since I leave about 50% of my fry in the breeder tank and never pull a spawn to a trap, I have never gotten an accurate count of fry nor eggs.

I would estimate the average number of fry that reach at least 3 months old per spawn at about 10 which would indicate the average number of eggs would be between 12 and 14. It is possible some spawns were bigger or smaller, especially the sole one from the #3 male. He booted some eggs by accident since I did manage to raise two in a trap to the set free stage.

Shimmy · Post by **Shimmy** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:55 am

I am guessing that the spawn batch is down to age and experience of parents I think. Over the last few years I have had 1-2 eggs up to 8-9. Then after an 11 month baron period I have had two clutches of 15 eggs!

I also suffer from high loss rates but have been working on several things this time round and I am hoping that this will result in a better success rate. Only thing is I will not know whether these changes have been successful until middle of next year!!

Try using ZM Food and change water daily 20-25% I think this has a big effect.

I am also trying out turning off my powerhead at nite to allow the small ZM 200 food to stay localised for the young fry to locate and hopefully fill up on.

Fingers crossed this will have some positive results

Plastic Mac · Post by **Plastic Mac** » Tue Dec 04, 2007 10:01 am

Try using ZM Food and change water daily 20-25% I think this has a big effect.

Water changes I agree with. ZM fry foods I used for along time and found no real evidence of any superior growth. I still have better results with water changes and using frozen food.

Zebrapl3co · Post by **Zebrapl3co** » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:14 pm

Your first spawn will always have a high number because the female have been holding those eggs for a long time and are just waiting to spawn. I once disected a female that died from an accident and she has 24 eggs ready to be laid and about another 8 smaller ones that needs developing. Sadly, she never even have a chances to make her first spawn.
If they spawn very frequently, their numbers will get lower and lower and like you said, mine also drop down to 8 eggs per batch. Not only that but I find that the eggs weren't as developed as well. I then seperated the pair and give them a 1/2 year rest. A dangerous move if you don't know if you can trigger then to spawn again. But anyway, I was more worried about their health. After 1/2 year, I put the back together again and they decided to take an extra 1/2 year on top of that (That's 1/2 a year of swearing for me for being overly confident of myself). But eventually, they spawn again and the first batch was 18 eggs. So I think it's because the female can't develope the eggs fast enough. It might be due to them not eating the right kind of food.

gecko · Post by **gecko** » Thu Dec 06, 2007 3:49 am

TwoTankAmin wrote:You mayl find this hard to believe, but I have no idea how to answer that question accurately, even after 24 spawns. All of the spawns have been in only two caves which are crudely made slate caves, very tight fit and siliconed together sloppily enough that there are beads inside the caves. I have never been sure I even have eggs until they become wigglers, when I can spot the movement at the back of the cave under pop's head. Silicone beads don't get wigglers

Actually after raising 30+ fry, todate I have actually not seen the eggs before.

The only time when I know there has been a spawn is when the little guys have absorbed their egg sacs and are out and about. Or the occasional dead fry which might not have transistioned well into solid food.

When I see a female trapped inside a cave, or a male fanning the cave furiously, I just let them be.

Both adults and babies are fed hikari sinking carni as staple. I do suspect that the adults have been feasting on the sturistoma babies, I have a pair of adult whiptail as tankmates, and they spawn monthly...I have seen adult zebras trapping days old sturistoma fry underneath their body, so I know they can be hunters as well.