Would a vet be able to sex

crystalview · Post by **crystalview** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:47 pm

I was wondering if there is someone or way to sex Zebra's earlier. Could an ichthyologist maybe at the University? Someone has to do this. It just seems like such a guess thing.

rich1988oxford · Post by **rich1988oxford** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:06 pm

patience.....
why would you want to put your zebs through the stress of being messed about by a vet just to find out what sex they are, wait until they are a few years old then post some pics

DanD · Post by **DanD** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 7:51 pm

I agree that it wouldnt be good to put them through that kind of stress but I can understand the want to know early.

A majority of zebs on the market are sold very young. Unless you buy them in large quantities, there is a risk that you will end up with all males. I rarely ever see adult female zebs being sold.

Since most zebs are sold young you have to let them grow out for a few years. Then if you find out that you do have all of one sex (specifically males) you have to either fork out a ton of cash to get a female or buy some more young zebs, wait a few more years and hope you don't get unlucky again. At least if you knew early on that you had all of one sex, you could buy some more young ones to let them grow out together.

The downside to knowing early is that then there is the potential that people would find out their young zebs are male, immediately sell them as 'Unsexed' and try again. This would lead to a pretty awful life for many young zebra males. This alone makes me hope there isnt a way to determine it anytime in the near future due to the supply/demand ratio

I think if your heart is really set on raising, caring for and potentially breeding zebras, for non profit reasons, you should figure out what % risk is acceptable, buy that many and hope for the best. For me 5 was the right number, 1 in 32 chance of all males is acceptable to me, especially since I will still adore my zebs even if they are all male

crystalview · Post by **crystalview** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 8:26 pm

You are right DanD. I never thought of the selling of unsexed. I guess I still try to hope for honest people. It could be hard on the males.
I love mine and would not care if there are no females. I just love to watch them. They are finally coming out to eat and seeing they are only 3/4" I won't know for a long time what sex they are. If there are females and I can perpetuate the species I would still have to do a trade. I would not want to breed brother and sister.
I am just someone who always ask why we do the things we do. I know I have asked for help at UCD for rare bird problems and they have not charged me for tests or answers. So I thought it might work to ask about zeb's. I would not want to stress the zebs out though. But those who want to breed some of the wild caught might need to know earlier for better perpetuation.
I do know that I am saving to buy a couple of more from pleconutbucket as soon as possible. I have fallen in love.........

chanettt · Post by **chanettt** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:23 pm

DanD wrote: 1 in 32 chance of all males is acceptable to me, especially since I will still adore my zebs even if they are all male

i like that

Adam · Post by **Adam** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 12:48 pm

Just a point to think about guys. Whilst it appears that males are easier to come by this is probably more to do with the fact that they are easier to catch in the wild and that females are often exported to markets where they fetch higher prices. My own oppinion is that the ratio of male to female fish in a brood is more than likely to be fairly even. There's nothing to suggest that the species is predisposed to producing more males than females. That said it has not yet been established if certain external factors, such as temperature, can favour one sex over the other. I'll get back to you guys in a few years once I've proved my theory.

Regards.

Adam

crystalview · Post by **crystalview** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 5:07 pm

I spent last night reading old posts and only got through half. You are right about that some want to sex these early for profit, but I did note that those with the largest colonies do it for the species. That's nice. Me I just read about aggression in having two males and wanted to prevent this. Mine are fry and just wish there was a stage list of food and changes till we stop calling them fry. With the fry choking on worms they don't include info on how old the fry need to be before eating worms is ok.
I am still going to ask at the university if it is possible to sex them early without to much stress. Just for my knowledge not for profit.
Since all the zebs we in the trade can get now are tank raised. The conditions will vary a lot so fry count and viability will change. The old post noted that change. As the post got newer in date it seemed that the fry are more viable and more of them. (practice, study, practice)
Well back to reading old posts it's going to take awhile

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:11 pm

Actually, sometimes a second male is needed before one male will assume the role as an alpha, and be willing to breed. A bit of comeptition never hurts looks like

It's not possible to set a limit to when the fry is old enough to feed on blood worms. it's got to do with size and not age. Fry develope at very different rate...

crystalview · Post by **crystalview** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:50 pm

McEve thanks that knowledge helps me not worry so much then. My three 1" will have to stay in their own tank for I feed my ADF black worms and the extra worms wander the tank till I vac.

Post by **TwoTankAmin** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 1:57 am

I am horrible at sexing fish, not just my zebs, but any of them that do not have clear physical differences between the sexes. For the zebs and other plecos, I just look to see who stakes out a cave and assume its male and those that don't are fm. No very scienctific nor accurate but it works most of the time.

I am not sure how bad it is breeding siblings that are 1st generation. And I would not be surprised if a few generations are genetically 'safe" doing this with.

Unfortunately I am not a super scientific/record keeping type. I have a colony that breeds- 3 males have spawned. I assume many of the rest are fms since they are all mature fish. Since I have never pulled newly hatched fry or eggs and seperated them to growout based on parents, mine are all intermixed.

I plan on holding onto some of my fry for longer term growout and spawning down the road and am trusting to chance based on having multiple parented spawns to make it probable that they will not all be related.

I do agree with the opinion that trying to vent a one inch or smaller zebra would not be a great idea. At that size you need a cope and tiny tools to see I would guess. Handling them etc. seems too risky to me. It is hard enough to get spawns/buy fry and then to raise them for many months for me to do anything that would risk reducing the odds.