Help Please... Orange/Red Spot on Belly

If it isn't to late, and you're desperately looking for some advice, hopefully someone can help you out.

GlockFu
Obsessed!!
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:20 am
Location: California

Help Please... Orange/Red Spot on Belly

Post by GlockFu »

It seems like I've been having so many problems with my tank lately :cry: ... Has anyone encountered this or know what it might be? I woke up this morning and found one of my zebras sucking on the front glass which is very rare and then I noticed a huge orange/red spot on his belly. I did feed them Hikari Sinking Carnivor pellets last night before I went to sleep. Could this have anything to do with it? I never feed live foods and haven't added any new fish for the past 10 months or so. Please give me any advice you can, I've never seen this before. Thanks...

Image
User avatar
Jenny
Obsessed!!
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:12 am
Location: Droitwich, England

Post by Jenny »

Just a thought - could it be a heater burn or is your heater protected?


I am sure somebody with more knowledge than me will reply to your post soon.

I hope it's nothing serious
Tom2600
Obsessed!!
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:37 am
Location: East Yorkshire

Post by Tom2600 »

Your zebra looks otherwise plump and healthy so I would guess it is a heater burn. HOWEVER, you have recently lost a Zebra and, like you say, have been experiencing a number of problems recently. It could be a bacterial infection resulting from poor water quality. This often affects bottom feeders first due to the higher bacterial levels on the tank floor due to sand/gravel and also food collecting.

What is your feeding and water change regime? What are you water parameters?

I would personally recommend you perform a few small water changes over the next week, say 3X10-15% changes and reduce the feeding by half. See how things go.
GlockFu
Obsessed!!
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:20 am
Location: California

Post by GlockFu »

hmmm I never thought of the heater burn. No, my heater is not covered so that could be a possibility. I'd be really happy if it is... Is that what it looks like on a Zebra Pleco? Does this happen often?

The Zebra I lost got killed by the other male and I took his body out pretty quickly after he died (his body was still very soft and it twitched once when I netted him). This makes me think that the two problems are unrelated unless maybe they get more aggressive with poor water quality? Or was there something else you were thinking?

I feed them every night 5-6 pellets per night. I changed my water about 3 weeks ago 10% - 20% per day for about 5 days along with cleaning out all of my filter pads. As for the bottom dwellers being more likely to get a bacterial infection, would it matter that the tank is a bare bottom tank?

I noticed it when I woke up right before work so I didn't have time to check my water parameters but will do so tonight and post them in the morning. I'll also start on those water changes.

The zebra is very plump and from the 10 minutes I watched her, she looks like she is acting normal... If it was a bacterial infection, how would I know? Is it contageous?

Thanks for all your replies!
User avatar
jerms55555
Obsessed!!
Posts: 360
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:50 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Post by jerms55555 »

I dont know if thats a heater burn...Didnt you say that you havent changed your water in 4 months and recently started to do so since you found the fry in the tank?? Maybe that had something to do with all your problems? How is your new water source?? Is it tap water??or RO water?? What city do you live in? I live Glendale and its pretty hard!!! I mix with RO and sometimes just RO...... Maybe to be on the safe side you should vacuum the gravel and get ride of all left overs and i would personally quarantine that fish on a bare bottom tank and clean all the left overs and determine if you should medicate it or not, by checking the healing process...just my opinion...wait for the pros to come on by... :wink:
GlockFu
Obsessed!!
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:20 am
Location: California

Post by GlockFu »

Yea, you're right about not changing the water in a long time becfore I found my fry. :oops: I have been using tap water. My tap water is extremely soft: GH: 1, KH: 1, PH: 8

My tank is a bare bottom tank but I'll do a water change and vacume it tonight.
User avatar
Jenny
Obsessed!!
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:12 am
Location: Droitwich, England

Post by Jenny »

As this looks a bit like a burn - I am just checking to make sure that you treat your tap water with a dechlorinator before adding it to the tank as I have seen similar chemical burns.

A small water change weekly (approx. 15-20%) is the norm and I am surprised that you havn't done a water change for a few weeks now - perhaps I am just extra careful .
GlockFu
Obsessed!!
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:20 am
Location: California

Post by GlockFu »

I havent added any chemicals to the tank except for dechlorinator... I did top off the tank with straight RO water but since it was less then a Gallons worth I dont think it would have done anything.

I tested the water and everything looks to be okay. The Amonia reading was pretty much clear, if you look through the tube long ways you could see a slight yellow tint in the tube (I know it could come out a clearer color though). Nitrite was 0 and PH was 6.2.

I did a 10% water change and added a sponge filter to the tank.

Here are some pictures I took when I got home from work. I looks like the mark sort of "deflated". In the morning it looked smooth with the rest of the body but now it looks a little like a soft blister? Is this consistent with how a burn would be? Or is a bacterial infection still a good posibility?

Image

Image

Image

Thanks for all of your input!
Tom2600
Obsessed!!
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:37 am
Location: East Yorkshire

Post by Tom2600 »

My guess is that because you had not messed with (cleaned) your tank for so long it had developed its own equilibrium. Your big clean and massive (relatively speaking) water change will have thrown things off track.

A couple of things.

Are you 100% positive your recent dead Zebra, died as a result of a fight? It does happen but my suspicion is that it may have died due to other reasons related to the problems you have been having.

If you think you may have detected any ammonia then this could well be a sign that you have distrupted the bacterial numbers in your tank. Only time wil help this recover.

I would definitely recommend cutting down on the food. In fact, not feeding for 2-3 days will not harm at all. Keep the water changes very regular from now on. Once/week at 10-20% should be fine.

With regards to the sore on your zebra. It looks very angry, I would personally either treat this topically or treat the entrie tank with a safe bacterial rememdy.
User avatar
Jenny
Obsessed!!
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:12 am
Location: Droitwich, England

Post by Jenny »

It looks external rather than an internal infection although it is difficult to see from a photograph and the colour appears to have calmed down a bit from the original red to a pink. I would monitor it closely for any fungus and, if your water quality is good it should heal itself.

What colour are your Hikari pelletts, when I feed mine Tetra Prima which is an orangy colour their 'belly' is an orange colour although the shape of your mark is more uniform.

Has there been any fighting and how many zebras have you got in the tank?

My other concern is that you say you changed the water every day four weeks ago and cleaned out your filters and you havn't carried out a water change since. The tank could be re-cycling in which case this could be an ammonia burn.
User avatar
Jenny
Obsessed!!
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:12 am
Location: Droitwich, England

Post by Jenny »

Sorry, Tom I was not aware of you reply when I posted mine.
:oops:
GlockFu
Obsessed!!
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:20 am
Location: California

Post by GlockFu »

I cannot be 100% sure that the death was due to a fight but I am fairly certain because he had bloodied/broken pectoral fins with parts of his body bloodied and the "whiskers" on the side of his head were broken. This all happened over night so I would assume that it was because of a fight.

I do think you are right about throwing off the equilibrium in the tank from the cleaning because the ammonia reading should be absolutely 0.

There has been more fighting in my tank then usual but it seems to have calmed down in the last week or so. The tank inhabitants include 5 adult zebras (1 male and 4 females), 5 baby zebras and 2 cardinal tetras.

I have never tried to treat a fish topically and am afraid I would hurt her. Would Melaflix work for the Bacterial remedy? Would the babies in the tank be very sensitive to this type of medication (they are about 3/4 inches long)?
Tom2600
Obsessed!!
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:37 am
Location: East Yorkshire

Post by Tom2600 »

I'm not saying the death wasn't due to a fight but the reddening in the areas you describe are also indicative of a bacterial infection.

If your filters are established then you should not have an ammonia or nitrite reading unless you stocking levels are very high and/or you are overfeeding. If you have ammonia readings only water changes will help until the filters establish further to cope with the pollution. There are however items on the market which remove ammonia, I use polyfilter if/when I need to.

The fighting is probably due to the cleaning of your tank after so long without touching it. The fish will be stressed and will also try to re-establish boundaries.

In terms of treatment. I only treat as a last resort when I am as sure as I can be about what is causing the problem. It is catch 22 for yourself as young fish are generally more prone to problems due to treatment chemicals. Therefore topical application of an antibacterial such as Acriflavine. This however will further stress you zebra.

Ultimately the decision is yours. Maybe monitor your zebra and only start to treat if you suspect the sore is getting worse.
GlockFu
Obsessed!!
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:20 am
Location: California

Post by GlockFu »

Thanks for all your help and advice Tom2600 & Seahourse, I really appreciate it. :D

I did water changes last night and also went to the store and bought Bio Spira which I added to the tank. I dont know if they have this in other countries but it's live bacteria that will cycle a brand new tank in 24 hours. I also replaced my air tube to increase the oxygen to regenrate the bio system faster.

I couldn't get a good picture of the sore on my zebra but from the little glimps I got, it looks like it is healing (fingers crossed). I'm going to hold off on the meds right now as long as I see progress.
Tom2600
Obsessed!!
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2004 1:37 am
Location: East Yorkshire

Post by Tom2600 »

Good to hear your zebra is hopefully on the mend. No worries for the advice, I am by no means an expert. In fact no one in this hobby is an expert as everyone is always learning. :D

Over my 15+ years of fishkeeping I have learn't the best methods are nearly always to keep things simple. Plenty of filteration, a good level of oxygenation, regular, small water changes and a good quality and varied diet in small feeds, but often (if your lifestyle permits). There will always be the odd time when an emergency occurs but try never to rush in. It sounds like you have got things right if you zebras have bred, my only advice from now on would be to keep up regular water changes.
Post Reply