HELP! How To Cure Fungs

If it isn't to late, and you're desperately looking for some advice, hopefully someone can help you out.

Post Reply
GlockFu
Obsessed!!
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:20 am
Location: California

HELP! How To Cure Fungs

Post by GlockFu » Sun Jul 10, 2016 9:16 am

My L046 have been fighting like crazy lately. I've never had such aggressive Zebras before. I have 4 groups from 2 different batches but the same seller and these guys are killers. They have ben killing eachother off lately :evil:

I haven't been able to save any of them after I find them beat up with fungus growing on their wounds. I have one right now that got it's pectoral fins chewed off and there is a lot of growth all over them. Usually they seem to die the next day when I find them like this but this one actually seems quite strong and has made it through today so I have a small glimmer of hope for him. I now have him in a breeder trap floating at the top of the tank with an airstone but Im really not sure what to do to try and help him. Last night and tonight I have taken him out and dabbed Methylene Blue on the cottony growths. There was a lot of cottony growth on the pectoral fins so tonight, I used a cotton swab and was able to wipe/pull most of it off.

What medicine do you recommend for this. This happens often enough that I need to figure out a way to cure these little guys when I find them like this. What do you suggest??? PLEASE HELP ASAP.

User avatar
TwoTankAmin
Moderator
Posts: 1201
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:16 am
Location: Westchester Co., NY

Re: HELP! How To Cure Fungs

Post by TwoTankAmin » Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:29 pm

I have always treated fungus with success using Maroxy by Mardel. Unlike Meth Blue it is clear and will not stain anything. However, this is no longer made. It has been replaced by Mardel with maracyn Oxy which combines antibiotics and anti-fungal meds rolled into one.
Maracyn-Oxy

For infections of: True fungal infections on fish and eggs (whitish tufts of cotton-like material) and bacterial diseases.

Maracyn®Oxy successfully controls fungus infections caused by Saprolegnia, Icthyosporidium, egg fungus and related species, and common bacterial infections. It slowly releases small amounts of a stabilized oxygen-chlorine combination which, when used as directed, has an unusual ability to treat a wide variety of tropical fish diseases. Fungus infections are usually found at the site of an injury or recent attack from parasites. A true fungus infection has a cotton-like appearance similar to a mold found on fruit, bread or cheese, except that on a fish a fungus is usually white. Fungus infections are very difficult to treat and are usually secondary invaders resulting from an injury on the fish or recent wounds from parasites or bacterial infection. Once the fungus starts growing on the fish, it usually continues to grow and enlarge. Unless medication is provided, death results.
from http://fritzaquatics.com/product/maracyn-oxy/

From what I can tell, most manufacturers no longer offer a plain fungus med but have instead moved towards making a single med as a above which contains more than anti-fungal meds. I have checked Terta Fungu sGuard and API Fugus Cure and they both combine. Kordon makes an all natural Fungus med, but from what I have read it may not be a great choice as it can be costly or work slowly.
What makes the common person uncommon is common sense.

GlockFu
Obsessed!!
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:20 am
Location: California

Re: HELP! How To Cure Fungs

Post by GlockFu » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:28 am

Thank you for the quick response TwoTank. I just bought some and added it to my tank at the recommended half cap per 10 gallons.

Do you think I should stop the spot treatment with the Methylene Blue? I've been dabbing the stuff directly on the zeb where the fungus is as recommended on one of the articles on this site. Should I stop that treatment now that I've added the Maracyn Oxy?

Also, do you know if this stuff kills beneficial bacteria?

User avatar
TwoTankAmin
Moderator
Posts: 1201
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:16 am
Location: Westchester Co., NY

Re: HELP! How To Cure Fungs

Post by TwoTankAmin » Tue Jul 12, 2016 1:47 pm

I would stop the blue swabbing. Unless the maker suggests it is safe to mix meds. I tend to avoid doing so.

I have never had cycling issues using Mardel products. part of this is due to the fact that most antibiotics do not kill all bacteria. Moreover, even those which are targeted at gram neg. or pos. bacteria will kill all types of them. But this is even moreso the case because of the bio-film in which the bacteria live. This provides a lot of protection against a variety of harmful things. A perfect example of this is the difference between chloramine and chlorine. The latter takes up to 39 times longer to fully penetrate the bio-film than the former. So if you forget the dechlor, you can have a bunch of time to do so re the bacteria. However, this is not the case for the fish.

This does not mean the bacteria are invulnerable inside the bio-film. What it means is different meds may be less effective due to it or some may be completely ineffective. However, some meds will still be fatal for the bacteria.

My suggestion is never assume that any antibiotic used is either safe or unsafe for the bacteria. It is best to be certain by testing some for ammonia during dosing. If you are concerned, you can always treat the fish in an H tank that is not cycled. This requires a lot of water changes and making sure if daily dosing is required that you do the water change right before you add that day's dose.

One of the things Mardel did in recent years was to come up with the spheres used in Maracyn plus. This made the meds more effective against external infections because they attach to the fish. This makes it possible to deliver the med with a greater deal of accuracy.
What makes the common person uncommon is common sense.

GlockFu
Obsessed!!
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:20 am
Location: California

Re: HELP! How To Cure Fungs

Post by GlockFu » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:15 am

After 3 days of medicating... I came home to a dead L046 :cry:

I've been working with these fish for a very long time now and have lost a decent amount of l046 to this same thing. I've tried many different treatments but it seems like once they get this fungus, there's no turning back. I've never been able to bring an l046 back to health once it's been in a fight and they get what appears to be fungus on it's wounds. It is very fluffy and cotton like where it sustained it's damage. Maybe I'll try a full dose of Meth Blue actually in the water next time. I didn't want to do this as I know it kills all of the bacteria but at this point, I'm out of ideas.

Has anyone else experienced this and been able to bring them back to full recovery?

User avatar
TwoTankAmin
Moderator
Posts: 1201
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:16 am
Location: Westchester Co., NY

Re: HELP! How To Cure Fungs

Post by TwoTankAmin » Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:19 pm

Sorry it ended badly.

I have lost almost no fish to fighting related injuries over the years. I have seen the red sides but have never seen serious infection of fungus. I have lost plenty of zebras to other causes however.

It may be that your fish was beyond saving. Normally, fungus on a wound is secondary to an infection of that wound. Over the 3 days of treatment did the cottony fungus begin to disappear? That would indicate that the fungus was cured but the underlying infection was not. I am wondering if you see the fish with fighting related injury before you see the fungus. This would further support the idea that it is an infection that does the big harm.

Stress weakens the immune system of fish. That stress can be caused by fear, by fighting, by improper water conditions, by nitrogen is some form being present or too high (ammonia/nitrite/nitrate), by being picked on, by injury etc. And once the immune system is weakened, pathogens present in too small numbers to be a threat to a fish at full strength are able to gain a foothold.

What I am getting at here is if you can spot things sooner and medicate then, there might be a more successful outcome.

Finally, I would suggest you really should change around the fish and how they are set up. When that much fighting is going on, change things up to mitigate things. I am wondering how many fish of what sexes are in what size tanks. I was recently corresponding with a very experienced fish keeper and breeder who had a huge fighting related problem. It was to the point that injuries seemed almost to be a disease. After discussions it turned out the person and another family member both had zebra groups for several years. They decided to combine them and the result was very West Side Story- gang warfare.

There were two groups of fish which had both done the whole fighting and pecking order thing and each group had things worked out. Adding new fish to an established colony almost always disrupts the pecking order and some amount of fighting ensues. Combining the two groups was like gang warfare. I know of only two ways to blunt this once it starts. The first is to have a very big tank with lots of cover. The space, the amount of cover/hiding places helps losers to flee and hide and helps break up lines of sight. Two "enemies" who cannot see each other will not be fighting.

Another solution is to break the fish into smaller groups in multiple tanks. Fewer fish means fewer fights.

The last thing to try if neither of the above works is to determine which fish are the problem and get them out. How you want to do this is up to you. Sell it/them. trade them. keep them in a tank with no other zebras. Whatever works for you.

Hope some of this helps. I know how hard it can be to monitor zebras since they usually hate being seen.
What makes the common person uncommon is common sense.

GlockFu
Obsessed!!
Posts: 151
Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 12:20 am
Location: California

Re: HELP! How To Cure Fungs

Post by GlockFu » Mon Aug 15, 2016 6:23 am

You may be right, it may be too late at that point. I do see them fighting sooner with some chewed fins and missing stripes but am hesitant to step in because I know they sometimes have to work things out them selves and a lot of times they do. I just received a new stock of fish, which this was a part of, because I decided to get back into trying to breed these fish but this batch seems like they are crazed, vicious fish compared to what I had before. I just recently bought a group of 30 l46 and they have been complete maniacs. I used to have about 25 before and they were never this vicious.

To answer your question, when I was adding the medicine, it didn't seem like it was reducing the fungus growths much. It didn't seem like it had much impact on it at all so I'm not quite sure what happened.

I've noticed that it is very hard for me to tell which fish is actually the problem because that fish will always be unharmed while the other fish are getting beat up. I did however try to pull out a fish that started to show signs of getting beat up and put him in it's own hospital tank. It had faded stripes and was missing 90% of it's tail. Unfortunately that fish just died after making what looked like a full recovery. I am going to start a new thread about that one right now. Next time maybe Ill just try rearanging the rocks and caves like you suggested.

global93
Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:20 pm

Post by global93 » Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:00 am

up top

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest