Ok how about:
Do you have to be from a government agency to qualify?
Or can I register a company with the disguise of " zoological research"?
Who do I need to contact to set the process in motion?
Can the ´Brazilian govt. check these things?
These are just a few off the top of my mind.
Anyone else heard they found some L-046 in Peru?
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madmoroccan
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Last edited by madmoroccan on Tue May 16, 2006 9:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Brazilian gov't. doesn't research it. They sell them through existing exporters for MUCH higher prices and in limited quantities. As thin as the ones are that arrived in the country, I think it could be possible they'd been previously collected and then just now allowed to be exported but I have no way of knowing.
McEve hit it on the head. First you have to find an importer that can find them on a transshipping list. Then you have to be willing to order enough from them to make it worth them allowing you the option of a box of zebras along with the rest of an order. Good luck
.
Barbie
McEve hit it on the head. First you have to find an importer that can find them on a transshipping list. Then you have to be willing to order enough from them to make it worth them allowing you the option of a box of zebras along with the rest of an order. Good luck
.Barbie
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madmoroccan
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I don't think my new job will cover a shipment of L46... 
But it is possible? Lottery jackpot in tow...
Ideally the exporter needs to be based in Brazil? Is that correct?
Apologies in advance if this is a bit long winded and if you don't really know the answer.
But it is possible? Lottery jackpot in tow...
Ideally the exporter needs to be based in Brazil? Is that correct?
Apologies in advance if this is a bit long winded and if you don't really know the answer.
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Hi
I have a little concern here, and I have broken the rules at times, perhaps I should have read them first. My apologies for this.
Anyway rule 7 in Private Sales and Wants seems to support the Brazilian ban.
Also an article in PFK this month about illegal importing of fish, and guess it applies to exporting and the officials who implement such legislation probably can't tell the difference between a Red Tailed Catfish and a Cardinal Tetra, and probably don't even care.
My point being the discussion that fish being exported, and also what may be required to get a box of L46's, also the post about trying to obtain L46's for scientific purposes ( Maybe under false pretences ), goes against the rule I mentioned above.
Any thoughts welcome.
Dave
Anyway rule 7 in Private Sales and Wants seems to support the Brazilian ban.
Also an article in PFK this month about illegal importing of fish, and guess it applies to exporting and the officials who implement such legislation probably can't tell the difference between a Red Tailed Catfish and a Cardinal Tetra, and probably don't even care.
My point being the discussion that fish being exported, and also what may be required to get a box of L46's, also the post about trying to obtain L46's for scientific purposes ( Maybe under false pretences ), goes against the rule I mentioned above.
Any thoughts welcome.
Dave
The fish being released for research purposes are released by the Brazilian gov't. It's not some shady underhanded dealing to get around them. It's their own policy. Noone is breaking rules discussing that policy, IMO, but that will need to be decided by Rob I guess.
My point on all of it was that you can't just go to an exporter, or even an importer for that matter and buy zebras. They are being exported from the country in small lots and they are parcelled out in return for whatever system of favors the importer uses in general. There is nothing unethical and/or illegal. No laws are being broken.
I think I'm going to excuse myself from discussing this subject for awhile. With the discussion currently taking place on PC where I'm lambasted for supporting such a heinous thing as explaining that the Brazilian government is not being totally behind their own "ban" and why, I'm beginning to just lose interest in worrying whether people believe the hype or the actual truth or not. Enough already.
Barbie
My point on all of it was that you can't just go to an exporter, or even an importer for that matter and buy zebras. They are being exported from the country in small lots and they are parcelled out in return for whatever system of favors the importer uses in general. There is nothing unethical and/or illegal. No laws are being broken.
I think I'm going to excuse myself from discussing this subject for awhile. With the discussion currently taking place on PC where I'm lambasted for supporting such a heinous thing as explaining that the Brazilian government is not being totally behind their own "ban" and why, I'm beginning to just lose interest in worrying whether people believe the hype or the actual truth or not. Enough already.
Barbie
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Hi
Hey Barbie
You are not being lambasted, and as you stated there are a lot of people with these fish who are not on this site, and you are just stating what is happening. I got my original wild ones off site, and purchased subsequent F1's off site.
As you probably realise I am anti the importation of most fish, unless their status is known. I also know there are quite a lot of species of fish maintained only in captivity.
I also agree people have to pay the price, or be patient.
I also know that Chester Zoo can import them for scientific purposes, but when I donated mine, they couldn't think of any scientific reason for importing them, there are so many in the hobby ( Just difficult to obtain ).
Also a policy to only take captive bred fish, a policy I believe this site supports at the moment with L46's.
I also can't think of any scientific reason for importing them, and if anybody can I'm willing to listen.
Explaining how these rules of the Brazillian Government can be bypassed, whether people have the means or not, there is somebody out there that does, is certainly not going to benefit this fish, and how detrimental it is only time will tell.
Dave
You are not being lambasted, and as you stated there are a lot of people with these fish who are not on this site, and you are just stating what is happening. I got my original wild ones off site, and purchased subsequent F1's off site.
As you probably realise I am anti the importation of most fish, unless their status is known. I also know there are quite a lot of species of fish maintained only in captivity.
I also agree people have to pay the price, or be patient.
I also know that Chester Zoo can import them for scientific purposes, but when I donated mine, they couldn't think of any scientific reason for importing them, there are so many in the hobby ( Just difficult to obtain ).
Also a policy to only take captive bred fish, a policy I believe this site supports at the moment with L46's.
I also can't think of any scientific reason for importing them, and if anybody can I'm willing to listen.
Explaining how these rules of the Brazillian Government can be bypassed, whether people have the means or not, there is somebody out there that does, is certainly not going to benefit this fish, and how detrimental it is only time will tell.
Dave
The government is NOT being bypassed. They are allowing the exports. That's the point that I keep trying to make and that keeps being pointedly ignored. This isn't someone dishonestly fooling anyone. They are allowing them to be exported, period. You not liking it and it being right or not are totally separate issues and opinions. The cold hard facts are still the same as I've previously posted and tried to explain.
Barbie
Barbie
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I agree this species needs to be protected, but this can be done within the hobby better than allowing the natural cycle to take place in the wild. That is why only dedicated (as opposed to investors) breeders should get a hold of them.
There is a similar organization for anabantoids called the International Anabantoid Association in which members help breed rare species that they spread among hobbyists and I believe they do have a reintroduction program in which they release fish into the wild.
The only problem is how will we reintroduce them back? I'm only worried about their hunting instincts, as we feed them pellets but in the wild they have nothing but live insects or are they scavengers?
There is a similar organization for anabantoids called the International Anabantoid Association in which members help breed rare species that they spread among hobbyists and I believe they do have a reintroduction program in which they release fish into the wild.
The only problem is how will we reintroduce them back? I'm only worried about their hunting instincts, as we feed them pellets but in the wild they have nothing but live insects or are they scavengers?
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madmoroccan
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So far as I am concerned, these questions are only to satisfy curiousity, and to create an interesting conversation.
I don't think that anybody UK or US based on this site qualifies as a millionaire... If there was one among us they wouldn't need to discuss "bypassing" the Brazilian govt. they just pay somebody a huge amount of money and bob's your uncle they have a box of wild caught L46. Money buys you a lot of love in south American countries. The point bieng that it is not viable as an option to obtain L46 "for research purposes" due to the mega prices of export. So ordinary joes like people on the forum can only discuss such matters not implement the information gathered to import large amounts of L46... Breaking the rules of the forum (of which I have no desire to break) and the Brazilian laws.
Let's keep this conversation civilised and discuss... not argue and point fingers.
I don't think that anybody UK or US based on this site qualifies as a millionaire... If there was one among us they wouldn't need to discuss "bypassing" the Brazilian govt. they just pay somebody a huge amount of money and bob's your uncle they have a box of wild caught L46. Money buys you a lot of love in south American countries. The point bieng that it is not viable as an option to obtain L46 "for research purposes" due to the mega prices of export. So ordinary joes like people on the forum can only discuss such matters not implement the information gathered to import large amounts of L46... Breaking the rules of the forum (of which I have no desire to break) and the Brazilian laws.
Let's keep this conversation civilised and discuss... not argue and point fingers.
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Its quite presumptuous and arrogant to think that what people would or wouldn't do if they had money. Some people do think they are doing the right thing for the right for reasons but are blindly mislead by bad experiences. Barbie is tying to be very polite in the way she is saying listen to her. I'm hearing discussion about research and importing hoping to trigger the response you want. There are people with right influence, have the ear and backing of importers i.e. HOPE.
People do a lot to give themselves a little hope, hope of an improvement on their current situation in life. When that goes out to a country were the infrastructure is is run down by the fight for that countries own survival as they see it. It becomes a patronised by the developed world. If you see. What makes our world better than theirs from my comfy electrical refrigerated chair are a few brilliant people who have had the vision and tenacity to carry that vision through. What puts it into perspective is this. As a nation the British people only own 12% of this amazing country. The rest is split between the very small number. There has never been a time where political favours and cronyism has taken greater effect on the nation. Which would put Brazil in fairy lights. Its just due to the vast amount of micro structures within each sector of this beautiful country that will ever allow a numpty like you and me to be correct, god like and be able to get a measurable amount of evidence to prove one way or another.
So it comes back to research, what or how are you going to better than a professional set up like zebrapleco or lets try some where not so hard to reach ah yes Chester zoo with all their contacts they still go to a well versed zebra keeper in the UK to get their programme started makes you think doesn't it??? well maybe!
Why does the hope of of having wild zebras invigorates people so much lets take a step back work a little closer to home sort out our breeding programmes then through the right channels we can make a difference. If the thought was really spared for the Zebras think about this who are you really trying benefit by getting wild zebras, what proves once obtained they are what they say they are and what you really want, will it fill a void and how long will that void be filled. There are plenty of good people on this site (I'm sure of that) being co-ordinated by the right people with the right knowledge, if you listened properly actually help you.
I have four Zebras, two wild that are both over 5yrs old two are more recent F1 additions all from different parents. I would love to have a couple females but through the right channels and not through favours I could call in.
The point is its not illegal to import the Brazilian little beggers, its do you really need to?
Wait for a while you may never know!
People do a lot to give themselves a little hope, hope of an improvement on their current situation in life. When that goes out to a country were the infrastructure is is run down by the fight for that countries own survival as they see it. It becomes a patronised by the developed world. If you see. What makes our world better than theirs from my comfy electrical refrigerated chair are a few brilliant people who have had the vision and tenacity to carry that vision through. What puts it into perspective is this. As a nation the British people only own 12% of this amazing country. The rest is split between the very small number. There has never been a time where political favours and cronyism has taken greater effect on the nation. Which would put Brazil in fairy lights. Its just due to the vast amount of micro structures within each sector of this beautiful country that will ever allow a numpty like you and me to be correct, god like and be able to get a measurable amount of evidence to prove one way or another.
So it comes back to research, what or how are you going to better than a professional set up like zebrapleco or lets try some where not so hard to reach ah yes Chester zoo with all their contacts they still go to a well versed zebra keeper in the UK to get their programme started makes you think doesn't it??? well maybe!
Why does the hope of of having wild zebras invigorates people so much lets take a step back work a little closer to home sort out our breeding programmes then through the right channels we can make a difference. If the thought was really spared for the Zebras think about this who are you really trying benefit by getting wild zebras, what proves once obtained they are what they say they are and what you really want, will it fill a void and how long will that void be filled. There are plenty of good people on this site (I'm sure of that) being co-ordinated by the right people with the right knowledge, if you listened properly actually help you.
I have four Zebras, two wild that are both over 5yrs old two are more recent F1 additions all from different parents. I would love to have a couple females but through the right channels and not through favours I could call in.
The point is its not illegal to import the Brazilian little beggers, its do you really need to?
Wait for a while you may never know!
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madmoroccan
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First sentence says it all really. Nice essay, though to call somebody arrogant is extremely unnecessary...madmoroccan wrote:So far as I am concerned, these questions are only to satisfy curiousity, and to create an interesting conversation.
I am wondering how your forays into the stock market have anything to do with L046?
Quoted from your post in the PRIVATE sales and wants section:
Hypocritical and arrogant all in one... no? Next time before you slander someone else look at yourself first.ritelaugh wrote:Two Females zebras wanted to ease my guilt of losing a bit of money on the stock market the last 2 days.
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So can you all please keep it in this spirit. Too many people are just too eager to namecall and succumb to personal attacks these days.madmoroccan wrote:madmoroccan wrote:So far as I am concerned, these questions are only to satisfy curiousity, and to create an interesting conversation.
Keep the discussions civil PLEASE. Keep in mind rule nr 5, 7, and 8 especially. You have read them... right...?
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madmoroccan
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