20 gal long...good enough?

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ApacheDan
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20 gal long...good enough?

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Ok guys, I got four 20 gal long tanks (30"x13"x13") in a central filtration system, bottom level is a 55 gal sump/refugium.

Here's the deal: the top 2 tanks have 8 growing Zebras on each, ranging in size of 1.25" to about 2". The middle tanks are same size, but contains other L#'s. Obviously, too early to sex them, but here's the questions:

At what size should I separate the Zebras and let them grow to breeding size? Provided that all 16 survive to maturity :roll: , then will 5 Zebras per tank be good enough? How many caves per tank? Would it be better to have 4 zebras per tank?

I do expect to make more racks/tanks as the need arises, but I just want to plan specifically for the permanent housing of Zebras. Thanks for any hints! Dan
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Post by twinspots_goby »

I would say 4 zebs per tank. Do you know the male/female ratio at this point? They might be too young to sex. I would put 2 caves in each tank and set them on each side and put many woods and slates in between. Males should look for a cave and live in as soon as they are ready. Females will usually hide somewhere else. Then you can tell how many males/females you have. :D
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Post by TwoTankAmin »

There is no one single "right" way to do things. I have always kept all my breeders in one tanl. There are 11 now and were as many as 13. The tank is a 30 breeder. When things are hopping there are also in excess of 50 assorted fry in there as well. Normally there are 15-25 fry left in the tank.

As best as I can tell there are 4 males and 7 females in the group and I have had as many as 3 spawns going at the same time in different caves. having two at the same time is almost the norm.

Other folks prefer to work with smaller numbers in a tank. So a lot of it is what works for your setup. If all the fish can coexist mostly peacefully, then bigger numbers are fine. If you have a lot og fighting issues then a different arrangement is probably better.

One thing about a colony is they do have to work out a pecking order. Once this has been firmly established, fighting tends to ne reduced since everybody knows their place. I would guess raising a group up to breeding age together would make the sorting out process more gradual and less violent. By the time they are getting ready to spawn they should have had it all worked out hopefully.
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Post by ApacheDan »

TwoTankAmin wrote:. I have always kept all my breeders in one tank. There are 11 now and were as many as 13. The tank is a 30 breeder. When things are hopping there are also in excess of 50 assorted fry in there as well. Normally there are 15-25 fry left in the tank..
I hear you TTA, but I would be so scared of leaving all my breeders in just one tank. What is something goes wrong with that specific tank? Once I was away for a weekend and came back to a flooded floor and found a cracked 55 gal tank with Discus gasping for air in whatever water remained. I guess, in your case, you have a lot of backup juvies/fries. I have none.

I like the idea of letting them "get to know each other" while they grow. Lets see what happens as it is...Dan
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Re: 20 gal long...good enough?

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ApacheDan wrote:I hear you TTA, but I would be so scared of leaving all my breeders in just one tank. What is something goes wrong with that specific tank? Once I was away for a weekend and came back to a flooded floor and found a cracked 55 gal tank with Discus gasping for air in whatever water remained. I guess, in your case, you have a lot of backup juvies/fries. I have none.
ApacheDan wrote:Ok guys, I got four 20 gal long tanks (30"x13"x13") in a central filtration system, bottom level is a 55 gal sump/refugium.
If you have a central filtration system and something goes wrong, wont that affect all your tanks? Or is there some set up to help prevent this?
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Re: 20 gal long...good enough?

Post by ApacheDan »

Spunky wrote: If you have a central filtration system and something goes wrong, wont that affect all your tanks? Or is there some set up to help prevent this?
Well, what can go wrong is a disease outbreak or temperature change. I got my system in such a way, that any given tank can be isolated individually if something is detected. I've also got duplicate everything, from heaters, airstones to UV filtration & sponge filtration. Besides, I look after my fish everyday. The trick of it all is to keep the tanks clean and regular water changes. I do water changes daily. Figure this one out, just about every fish store typically have central filtration systems.
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Post by Line »

Hello

I also duplicate everything - even to different power supplies.

Personally I have always dreamed about a huge tank full of zebras - but no - i wouldn't do it. Just imagine if the glass broke or something like that. Therefore I split up my Zeb's.

Btw - I have often heard that very little groups 1 male to 3-4 females work very well.
and I have had as many as 3 spawns going at the same time in different caves. having two at the same time is almost the norm.
This is very interesting. Usually people tell, that one single Alpha male rules the game and not letting anybody else spawn.

Best regards
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Post by TwoTankAmin »

The multiple spawns are not simultaneous. They tend to occur 10-20 days apart with 15 being about average. The Alpha is usually tending his brood when the #2 male spawns. When the alpha is ready to go again, #2 is still on his brood.

The one and only time i had 3 spawns at the same time the alpha male was on almost free swimmers, #2 was on wigglers about 1/2 way to free swimming and the 3rd male was on eggs.

As you can see they really could not fight as they were always too busy with their own spawn to worry about what other couples might be up to.
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Post by ApacheDan »

Line wrote: Btw - I have often heard that very little groups 1 male to 3-4 females work very well.
I wish I could get that ratio of 1M/3-4F :lol: not easy to come by. I might be wrong,but from what I've seen Zebras in nature (or at least in captivity) seem to occur more on a 1m/1f ratio....you figure...
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Post by ApacheDan »

TwoTankAmin wrote: As you can see they really could not fight as they were always too busy with their own spawn to worry about what other couples might be up to.
Hey TTA; somewhere I read that you have plans to change from a 30 gal to a bigger setup? any reason for that? How many adults would you expect to put there, or will it be the same colony?
Thanks, Dan
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Post by TwoTankAmin »

The same colony. The reason I want to go with a bigger tank is it will allow me to leave more fry in the breeder tank for a longer period of time. This should mean fewer but bigger fry hunts.

I am also somewhat comvinced that the larger the offspring population in the current breeder tank gets, the less inclined the adults may be to spawn. That is my impression and more anecdotal than scientifically based.
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Post by KnaveTO »

there is scientific eveidence out there that brood sizes have a tendency to decrease in overpopulated areas of wildlife, furthermore the more over-crowded it is the less of the young that will make it to adulthood due to competition for food.
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Post by Spunky »

I get what you are saying about duplicating everything (you can do that in a big tank as well) The part that scares me about central filtration is that all water is connected and if one tank would break, all the tanks would be drained. I guess it would only drain to the water level of the intake valve, so that is not as bad...

The only good thing about waiting many years before i get to have zebs is that i get to learn from all your experiences...
*thinking positive, thinking positive*
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Post by ApacheDan »

Spunky wrote:I get what you are saying about duplicating everything (you can do that in a big tank as well) The part that scares me about central filtration is that all water is connected and if one tank would break, all the tanks would be drained. I guess it would only drain to the water level of the intake valve, so that is not as bad...

The only good thing about waiting many years before i get to have zebs is that i get to learn from all your experiences...
*thinking positive, thinking positive*
The bottom is always the sump tank. If any given tank breaks, the rest will remain full and only the sump would empty. If the sump breaks, then all the tanks remain full. The advantage of central filtration, amongst others; is that the water stability is great, as compared to any single tank.
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