Zebra to young??

Everything you ever wanted to say about "Zebra luvin", but didn't because you thought everyone would take the mickey! Plus general topics for discussion including everything from what you feed them to your personal experiences.

Jacqueline
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Zebra to young??

Post by Jacqueline »

Would a zebra, L46, be to young for breeding at the age of 2 years? The fish in question is around 6cm TL.

I saw my adult male zebra together with the youngster in his cave. Making the classic signs of courting. Later he let it go again but the youngster staid around the cave making attempts/moves to get back in again :shock:

There is also a adult female in this group of 6 (2 adults and 4 youngsters) but he has no interest in her for the past year.

Has anyone experienced something like this before??
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John
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Re: Zebra to young??

Post by John »

Jacqueline wrote:Would a zebra, L46, be to young for breeding at the age of 2 years?
No she can spawn, just keep an eye on the couple, the male might be to big and hurt her.
A friend of mine lost a few young females to a adult male that way.

Good luck :wink:
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Jacqueline
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Re: Zebra to young??

Post by Jacqueline »

Thanks John. Since I asked around I have heard several incouraging reply's :D

I'll keep watch of them 8)
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Rob
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Re: Zebra to young??

Post by Rob »

Hi Jacqueline

Like john said, watch out for the male, and don't expect a large clutch. If you are lucky you may get 3-5 eggs but I wouldn't expect many more. Has the male paired up before? If so then you are definately onto a winner. If not then it may take a few attempts, but if she is in there, then it is a good sign. Quite often if the first spawn is infertile with only a few eggs the female will spawn relatively quickly afterwards with a good spawn.

My fingers are crossed your you. :-)

Rob
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Jacqueline
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Re: Zebra to young??

Post by Jacqueline »

Hi Rob,

Thanks for your reply. The adult male and female I have are both wildcaught so I don't really know if he has ever had a brood before. But certainly not with me. Maybe thats why this couple is so reluctant to breed for me up till now. The juveniles are tank bred and coming up to 2 years old.
I was not at all expecting anything for an other year so only if it would be the one egg I would be extaticly amazed :D But saying this I'm quite nervous about this courting.... :? So if it doesn't work out that's fine by me, if it's saves my young fish.

But I have an other question I need some advice on...if that's ok?
In a weeks time I'm going to collect some more adult zebra's, for sure an other male and female but maybe some more. As my male isn't interested in my female I wanted to try and pair her up with an other male, and do the same with for my male (give him an other female).
Is it better to put all the zebras in the same tank to let them find there own partners? I'm afraid that they will fight and hurt each other :? Or hurt the juveniles.... Or should I separate them into two groups? If putting them in the same tank, is it better to change the cave setup in the tank so the males have to establish a new terratory?

Thanks in advance :happy:
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Re: Zebra to young??

Post by Stevie.K »

Hi, good luck with the zebs spawning, I have had young females spawn with very small spawns but still 4 or so eggs & still a result! :lol:
I would be be tempted to use 2 tanks if you have the space, not to upset any balance you may already have & also depending on your tank size.
What size is your tank? :)
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Re: Zebra to young??

Post by TwoTankAmin »

This is an interesting subject as folks come down on both sides of the issue. Some will swear by pairs or trios while other will say spawning groups/colonies are the way to go. When it comes to zebras, as well as other plecos, I am a proponent of the group. However, due to the high cost of these fish this route may not always be possible. Assuming money is not a constraining factor, here are the reasons why I prefer a zebra group.

1. We all know that the smaller the female, the fewer eggs she will produce. However, there is a second issue. It takes a lot of energy to grow, and zebras are excruciating slow growers. It takes a lot of energy to make eggs. There is not enough for both in a younger fish. As a result the younger a fm fish might spawn, the more likely it is to stunt or slow her growth which also means smaller spawns for a longer time. In the wild or in a group setting the females will compete for the attention of the best males just as the males compete for the female's interest. Since the normal result is that the bigger fish win such disputes, the smaller/younger females are less likely to be spawning and thus the more likely they are to grow. In pairs or trios this is often not an option.

2. Genetic diversity can best be accomplished when there are multiple males and females which hopefully are unrelated fish. How diverse the gene pool will be depends upon how hard the fish keeper works to try and acquire unrelated stock.

3. Spawning is often contagious. In a group one will often get more spawning activity than if the group were broken into pairs or trios. All the competition and hormones in the water can be very stimulative. For example, in a tank of 12 breeders I have had as many as 3 spawns in various stages all in the same few week period.

4. In a pair or trio the loss of a fish can mean the end of spawning.

Of course this is all just my opinion on this topic. As Barbie has reminded me many times over the years, it only takes a pair to spawn :wink:

There are also some downsides to working with groups:

1. More fish = more potential fighting resulting in serious injury or even death.

2. A tank disaster can wipe out an entire group.
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Re: Zebra to young??

Post by Jacqueline »

Hi,
Thanks again for the reply's, thats something to work with :wink:

As I also keep discusfish I have learned about the females growingrate slowing down after spawning. So I fully understand your point TwoTankAmin.

My own experience with breeding groups is mixed. I have a pair of L270 wich spawn every 4 weeks, no other adults here. I also had a large breeding group of 12 adult wc L66. They spawned twice but then stopped. I then removed all the other males except the breeding male and 1 other male and added the 2 breeding females to make a new group of 4. After that they resumed spawning and still do so a year later, spawning every 4-6 weeks. This setup is followed trough in my other breeding groups, L260, L201 and L340 with the same succes. I let them pick their partners and then get rid of the remaining males.
But I am more carefull with my zebra's :luw:
I could maybe put the young zebra's separate from the adult zebs. Putting the new ones together with the 2 I have already got and giving the young ones their own tank and space to grow up in. As I said I rather have the young ones save and grow for an other year.

But then....a nice big group would be nice for the fish. More natural I would think.

The tanks are 160 liters each and filtered over one large biological filter of 300 liters, in total about 1600 liters. In the tank there are extra powerheads for more flow.
:? Still don't know what I shall do....
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Rob
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Re: Zebra to young??

Post by Rob »

Hi Jacqueline

First of all, Twotank, that was an abolutely fantastic response, and extremely well put together. :-)
Whilts I kept most of my groups in tanks of 2-3 females and a male, this was primarily down to tank size and the fact that most of my breeding stock were relatively old and established fish. Where possible I would try never to introduce a younger male or female to a potential breeding environmetn purely due to the high likelihood of disputes. As Twotank said, it is in reality abotu natural selection. Whilst we are not providing a terribley real environment for the fish, natural selection will still override any parameters we offer.

If my wife had let me fill the 7ft x 2ft x 2ft tank in teh living room with zebras, then we may have had an entirely different set-up. :-)

I think if a vast enough environment can be established then groups are a better and more realsitic idea, but then of course you have to accept there is a greater likelihood that you will loose fish to territorial disputes.

When it comes to the smaller fish however especially younger fry, I have always preferred to seperate them from breeding groups after around 6 months, earlier if there are signs of other spawns in the same tank. This was mainly due to the fact that the foods I used to condition the fish after a brood is not suitable for fry, i.e. bloodworm etc.

At the end of teh day there are no real right or wrongs. Whatever works for you, and if it doesn't work try again :-).

Hope this helps.

Rob
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Re: Zebra to young??

Post by mikeyboy »

have to say very interesting
glad u said the last bit rob (blood worm ) never thought of that :|
as i mite now have to get another tank for young 1,s
as adults love the blood worm and alot of ppls say not good for young as they choke :book:
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Re: Zebra to young??

Post by Rob »

It is always good to have an excuse for another tank :-)
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Re: Zebra to young??

Post by Jacqueline »

This morning I made the choise to put all the zebra's together in one tank. So today I started to prepare the new tank. Before it was separated into two tanks, now it is one big tank again. Tomorrow the new zebra's will join the others to make a family group.
I've made loads of hiding places for the young zebra's and the caves are well separated and angled from each other to avoid fighting by sight. I'll make a picture of the tank tomorrow, it's a bit cloudy now :wink: Very satisfied with the end result :)
I've put my breeding collony of C. Adolfoi in with them to clean the tank from leftover food. I've had them in other breeding tanks and because of their peacefull nature they do very well in breeding groups of Lnumbers.

Because of the work on the new tank I caught the zebra's out. First time I've done this since I've got them so I found it very exiting to see them in full again :D
Here are some pictures.

All of them together
Image

The two adults and the youngster he's been courting
Image

The female and the youngster again, could this be a female?
Image
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John
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Re: Zebra to young??

Post by John »

Could be, headshape is pointy and looks little pinched at the gills, those are signs pointing in the female direction.
Bodyshape still looks immature though, if it's a female she got to develop hips :P
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Jacqueline
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Re: Zebra to young??

Post by Jacqueline »

Big day today :D I collected my new zebra's to join my pair.

It was very hard to select the ones I wanted, there were somemany great zebra's! Wow!

I selected one large male and 3 others. Hopefully there will be at least one female... Hope you can help me with that :?

Here are the new fish:

Definate male
Image

Female?
Image

Doubtful.....male?
Image

First taught female but later wasn't quite sure....
Image

All together, also got a juvi extra :D
Image

Tank
Image

Rightside
Image

Leftside
Image

I'm starting this group all together. Later I'll maybe divide them into 2 groups.
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Re: Zebra to young??

Post by tiger27924 »

Great pics. Looks like it should be fun to watch how things develop. Hope you see some action soon! :aok:
Tony
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