Am I a fool?

Post by **TwoTankAmin** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 10:42 pm

I have now gone over the two year point in spawning zebras. I sold my first batch in Feb 07 and have placed over 100 to date. From the start I sold only in lots of 5-8 fish which ranged from 1.25-1.5 inch TL to people I tried to vet in terms of being likely to raise and then trying to spawn them.

In all this time I never sold any fish at auction and I sold them for what I thought was a goodr price- $125/fish if picked up and $150 if shipped with a live arrival guarantee. There have been more requests than I have been able to fill and I have tried to be fair in that I sold fish in order of request. I do tend to give preference to folks who pickup.

While I have never sold them at auction, I do follow zebra listings on AquaBid just so I know what is going on out there. There is a current listing on AB: "This auction is for one 1" +, over 6 months old, unsexed L46 zebra pleco. Winner can get up to 10 at the winning price." The current bid is $276. Two of the bidders are people who have contacted me lookig to buy. Other closed auctions have gone to folks also on my prospective buyer list and these auctions closed at prices well above what I normally charge.

Of late I have been wondering if I should be selling some at auction. I feel a bit foolish selling fish for $125-$150 that are going at auction for $100 or more over my prices. I find myself torn between the desire to continue as I have been and the desire not to feel like I am a fool for selling so much cheaper than the going market price.

I am curious what others who spawn and sell them are doing and what folks here think I should be doing. I have been told but a couple folks that I should just raise my prices. What do you all think?

Digital · Post by **Digital** » Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:09 pm

I'd raise them up personally. I'm also interested into breeding the L046's as well. I'm in southern CT, possibly we can meet and I can check out your stock. I do know you only sell those interested in breeding and with sufficient space and time to do so as well.

ApacheDan · Post by **ApacheDan** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:11 am

If I was you, I wouldn't feel guilty about something I can't control: Economics; the Demand and the Supply will determine the correct price. If you go lower than that, then it is your lost. If you go higher, you won't have any customers. Years ago, I bought from KKorotev at $125 apiece. About one week ago he sold ..Aquabid auction went to $340's for 2" zebras. Sell at whatever price you want to sell and if you want to be good to the hobby...then give free advice & continue posting in forums, but business is business....just my own 2 cents worth..

pureplecs · Post by **pureplecs** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:16 am

TTA,

Given that I've known your name for a couple of years (and have followed your breeding saga

)... I would have gladly gave you 200 to be bumped up in your waiting list. It sucks bad to have to pay anything more than that... and I would hate to throw down the money to get them from overseas but, it's one of those things where it's like... ok I've waited long enough and I want some NOW! I try to supress the womanly impulsive shopping tendancy here (HAHA) but I've bred other plecs and always wanted zebras (I know... doesn't everybody?) LOL... So here I am, but do you think I will win the zebras on AB? It's probably doubtful. So... what's a girl to do?

b0ot · Post by **b0ot** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:03 am

I like Willy Wonka bars.

vanillarum · Post by **vanillarum** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:19 am

TTA, I don't think you're a fool, I think you're someone who actually cares about the species. It seems that you are more concerned with carrying on the breed rather than someone only in it for the money. And that makes you a rare individual. Not unique, for I think that there are quite a few in this hobby like that. But not all ! Having said that, I do think you should ask more money for your fry. You will have no problem getting it from the people who really want to raise these fish. And..., you will still be able to be selective about who gets them and who doesn't. I am on your list (hopefully), and I will gladly pay what you ask if I know in the long run I will be able to obtain them. Stick to your principles, you'll feel better about it in the long run !! Good luck.

Spunky · Post by **Spunky** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:24 am

Could you do both? Take advantage of selling high on AB. Then sell for your lower amount to a select few that pass your inspection...the ones that want to breed and to do it right. That being said, you should ignore it, because i am one that does not have any zebs and would love to buy some of yours at $150 shipped!

Be money smart, you made an investment, but you are not stupid for having a generous heart and the desire spread the zeb love.

Post by **Barbie** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 4:52 am

I need to mention that personal attacks are not allowed on the board. Hopefully the pm I sent regarding it will straighten everything out.

With that said, TTA and I have talked pretty extensively on this subject. I haven't exactly been burdened with nearly as many fry to worry about rehoming, but it's a frustrating situation. I came up with the cheaper fish if you come get them scheme so I could meet the people taking home my children and so that they'd have less of a chance of getting lost somewhere on an airplane. I really dislike the idea of selling zebras at auction because I won't have any control over who purchases them. That can both endanger their futures and make me frustrated about letting someone kill them. I say that, knowing full well that people that paid less and were selected from a big group of applicants have also killed a good number of my babies. It happens. I realize that.

It also happens that I have a huge loan I have to pay off for the small store I was silly enough to open last year. I struggle to make my loan payments, yet I sell zebras for less than most, depending on their sizes and ages. I guess it's a question of where economics and ethics collide. For me, there is no clear answer. Maybe I'm lucky I don't have enough fry to really make it a conundrum yet

.

And WOOT, I just realized this is my 1000th post!

Barbie

canedog · Post by **canedog** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 5:53 am

Congratulations on your success. It sounds like you’ve done a lot to contribute to the viability of zebras as a collected fish. I don’t think that needs to be at odds with collecting back some/ all of your investment or even making some profit. Certainly if you go to auction you will lose control over to whom the fish go, but I don’t think you need to go to auction to collect much closer to market rate for your fish. Why not raise your price to something closer to the range you are seeing at auction and see how people respond? If demand drops off enough that you feel uncomfortable with whom you’d be placing your fry, you can always reduce it or hold back some fish at lower prices for deserving people. My guess is that you would still get enough demand at a higher price to place with people who are serious about and capable of breeding the fish.

Whatever you choose, I hope your success continues. -- One question though, I’m curious, what sort of mortality rate have you experienced in fry you've shipped?

CD

Post by **TwoTankAmin** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:08 am

I have shipped about 67, the rest were picked up. Of those only one was a DOA and a microscope examination by the buyer revealed a red spot by one of the pectoral fins. We surmised it was likely the result of a netting injury which happened while I was bagging them.

I have also had buyers lose the fish after receiving them alive and healthy. One during acclimation due to a contaminant getting into the water and the other a few weeks after they arrived- again due to a cantaminant.

My best estimate of eggs/fry I have lost due to natural causes and accidents is about 40%.

pureplecs · Post by **pureplecs** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 12:26 pm

b0ot wrote:im sorry pureplecs, but u keep biding and beating me only hurting ur price.. thatswhy u only one who outbidded me..IF U WOULD OF seen buy it now it was 275$.00 i got 4 on the way and he has only 2 or 3 left.. he put up the auction so people could contact him and buy. but people started bidding instead of using buy it now so they only hurting them selves by bidding more than 275$, i just bought 4 from him for 275$ each.. u can keep biding and beat my high bid and pay 325$ if u want. people just dont simply follows directions.. sheez..

b0ot,
I didn't take that as a personal attack, I know it can be very frustrating when you bid on something you REALLY want and get outbid... It's nothing personal. I don't claim to know what directions that you speak of though(and I that I KEEP bidding and beating you??? I only bid once), I did not see the buy it now and it doesn't really matter at this point anyway because you got what you wanted eh? And you got them for $275... Congratulations! The seller states in the auction that the winner can get up to 10 additional, if you say that he only has 3-4 left then he is breaking the rules of his own auction and that is not very nice. But kudos to you. I hope to have some soon as well.
I think it is great what TTA is doing and when I get to breeding them, I am very hopeful to do the same. Same with the L260's (and others)... I saw one go the other day on auction for SIXTY BUCKS! YOWZA!

Happy Monday!

b0ot · Post by **b0ot** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:55 pm

im sorry if if came abit blunt, i wasnt posting this as a personal attack. I didnt know once you bid the buy it now price was taken off the site. What I did was make my bid at 275$ like buy it now was, the guy emailed me stating how many do i want. I was first to reach 275$ ,when auction first started 5 days ago it said buy it now at top for 275$. I was just telling pureplecs instead of bidding past that to just simply email the guy, i should of made that more clear rather than keep bidding.BUT PURE, JUST EMAIL HIM.He will sell u however many u want for 275$ each, and to me I'd pay that saying u cant find none forsale anywhere unless u wanna get on a list for several months. This guy doesnt do list, first comes first serve when fry is avail. Thats why he sells them this price, if he had a list of waiting people then he would probably do them cheaper, but he doesnt breed that much, he has nothing near the resources of zebras as TTA HAS.I AGREE WITH TTA, if he wants it for the money than raise price, if his heart is about keeping this species alive and dwelling than let the price go low as possible without him losing money on the food/effort/resources it takes him to offer these wonderful guys to us all.IM SORRY ABOUT THE PREVIOUS POST, IM NOT TRYING TO BASH OR STTACK ANYONE, JUST HELP THEM OUT AND SAVE THEM MONEY. anybody got anything further please pm me of your thoughts thanks.

-Chris

dave · Post by **dave** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:01 am

Guess I'll answer this in the context of the post rather than just the title.

I too sell at below the market rate, bred about 200 now and one female that I sold and bred has now bred.

I do know that quite a few of the fish I have sold are no longer with the people I sold them to. They have been moved on. some for profit some not.

Guess that's life.

IMO do what your happiest with, lets face it outside the species 3 Ancistrus variants, no other Locarid is bred in such numbers. The way it looks, the price and the ease of breeding ensures that this will be with us in the hobby for a long time.

Take care

Dave

Am I a fool?

Am I a fool?

Hi