PH/GH/KH issues

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jb9738
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PH/GH/KH issues

Post by jb9738 » Wed Apr 23, 2014 7:55 pm

Alright so i am getting 5 zebras next week and my ph out of the tap is 8.2-8.4 GH 7-8 KH 5-6. I wanted to bring the ph down so i invested in some ro water from publix. The ph of that turned out to be 6.4 with kh and gh 0-1. I mixed the tap and ro water 50/50 in a huge Tupperware container. The ph now is 7.4-7.6 and Gh looks like its 1 and KH 3 with a TDS of 50. The zebras are coming from 6.5 ph water. Thats all the parameters i was given for them. I just wanted opinions on whether these parameters were acceptable and how i should acclimate the zebras up a whole degree in ph. I just thought it was weird the KH and GH dropped so much with my 50/50 mix.

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TwoTankAmin
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Re: PH/GH/KH issues

Post by TwoTankAmin » Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:01 pm

Better late than never.

Changing parameters is a bit more complex than it looks. Here is a decent read that will help explain it in easy to understand terms http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/begin-chem.html

Zebras are pretty forgiving in terms of parameters. The are triggered to spawn by change. But there is no real hard and fist rule. Rather it is in changing the parameters that parameter considerations come into play.

My tap water is a pH of about 7.1 and TDS about 83 ppm (gh 5, kh4). In order to work to trigger them I have used two approaches which have worked. One was to start by raising the TDS a bunch (into the 150-160 ppm range) and letting the pH drift up some due to how I do this. Then the temp is allowed to move up until its time for the rainy season. This simply requires my tap water and a bit or ro/di water. Temp is always the easiest parameter to control so not a real problem.

I have also done the reverse. I run my tanks using straight tap water and when time comes for the onset of the rainy season I use a lot of ro/di water. This will also let the pH drop a bit and again, temp is easy to lower.

What makes life the most complicated is when you have to change your tap parameters both for a dry and a rainy season. If you start by dropping yours from where they are from the tap to be your dry season, then you have to do an even greater drop and maintain that for a while for the rainy. In essence you are never using your tap and always having to adjust things rather than having to that much less.
What makes the common person uncommon is common sense.

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Bugsy
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Re: PH/GH/KH issues

Post by Bugsy » Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:48 am

I love this topic, I have the same ph water of 8.2 as yourself. My gosh have I killed many fish by doing what you are wanting to do and that is lower the PH.

I can only tell you my stories you can try it if you wish I will never ever do it again after killing 3 of my 5 shrimp as of late.

Years ago I use to breed Angelfish, when my pair started spawning I did the unthinkable and was trying to lower my ph which is naturally high. So on I went headache after headache trying to do this right to raise Angelfish. I ended up killing more babies than I had alive, the PH bounce is unreal. So I thought enough of that and just left the water as it was. Treated it with Prime right from the tap, well I had more babies than I knew what to do with. Now with the Shrimp I have some Red Crystal Shrimp and Black Crystal Shrimp, they need soft water to breed, so I thought this time I would try the 50/50 tap and RO. When I first got them home they came from the 50/50 and I acclimatized them really slowly to my full out high ph water, all 5 were doing amazing and molting steady, then I got onto a shrimp site and they said those shrimp will die soon if you don't do the 50/50 well as I did this change ever so very slowly over time ya 3 dead 2 alive. All 5 were doing just great in the normal water what the hell was I thinking to even try this. So now I am slowly taking the 2 I have back to full out treated tap water and the change in them is unreal, back molting, moving around both are alive so I will never do this again. I truly believe that these captive bred fish/inverts will definaltey acclimatize to your water if done slowly if they are wanting to mate they will do so as well.

My days of playing around with water are over. I also kept a nice school of Discus in a community tank for years with my tap water as well. My oldest Discus was 7 years old and 7 inches in diameter.

So my suggestion is to leave well enough alone, keep water clean, warm well oxygenated and enjoy your fish.

leisure_man
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Re: PH/GH/KH issues

Post by leisure_man » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:10 am

Is funny how people look at things so one dimensional. There is a reason NOT to keep fish at certain parameters even if they would be fine in it. At such a high pH the spawn will have a very skewed sex ratio, which is a real problem with L46 since each spawn is very small and they don't spawn very often. Shrimp on the other hand, breeds like roaches, so the number takes care of the sex ratio issue.
Obviously if you are not interested in breed them and just have one or two fish or shrimp in the tank, leave the tank alone and enjoy them. Not having a good understanding of water chemistry or basic high school chemistry, messing with parameters you don't understand is a good way to flush money down the toilet.

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Bugsy
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Re: PH/GH/KH issues

Post by Bugsy » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:15 pm

Just to comment about your reply to my post, a fellow hobbyist has Zebras and has had them for the past 15 years spawing in high ph water, one of my concerns when I wanted a few of these plecos was the ph, he said in the time he has been breeding them in the same ph water as I have he has never had a sex ratio issue at all. So I truly think that its a matter of the fish itself and not the water parameters they are kept in that determines the sex of the fish outcome. Now the place I got my fish from has very soft water naturally and she has never said she had an issue with sex ratio so I really think its a matter of the fish itself.

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