Two spawns at once!

INXS · Post by **INXS** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:14 am

Well, the fertility water is running wild in the tank . (I will be bottling and selling it shortly)
The alpha male has been spawning nonstop since July with two other large and good looking males occupying some nice caves.

I did a waterchange on thursday and tipped the alpha males cave up some more - a few hours later he was back in there keeping a rather large bundle of eggs clean. This made me quite happy but what made me even more excited was that one of the other males had a female trapped in the cave.

The next day he was also watching over a bundle of eggs though a bit smaller and on top of it the third male is waving his tail with a couple of females nosing at the cave.

Now I just need to get them to start raising the young and I'll be happy.

I know this has been discussed before , whether it is normal to have more then one spawn at a time - if I remember correctly I think most people agreed that it was not normal and it usually was a rare freak occurance.
I'm keeping an eye out to see if perhaps the colony has settled down so much that they can have multiple spawns on a regular basis?

fishboy · Post by **fishboy** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:49 am

Very awesome. so, how many are in your tank, and how many spawns have you had since july

INXS · Post by **INXS** » Wed Dec 07, 2005 2:22 am

Thanks.
13 adults, 2 fry and including the last two it's 10 spawns.

nightowl1350 · Post by **nightowl1350** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:29 am

Congrats!!! Sounds like yours all get along

If you can post pics.
I only have BN plecos, but have 1 male who spawns with 3 females in a 24 hour period. That way he only has to sit on one clutch of eggs a month and gets to eat the rest of the time.

Caesars · Post by **Caesars** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:56 pm

Nightowl, looks like your guy got it sorted for himself

And I thought mine were clever ...

INXS, if you do decide to sell the water, please put me down for a couple of bottles! And congrats!!!! Put some pictures of the babies up - let us see the little beauties!!!

One question: My BNs had multiple spawns lately and I noticed the last bunch of fry were considerably smaller than the initial ones, also the fry are way more "sensitive" than usual, have a slower growth rate and, regrettably, I lost a good number of them so far. Also, though both father and mother were regular BNs some of the fry are albinos (I'd say about 40% or thereabouts). I was wondering if anybody else has noticed anything similar???

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:02 pm

Congrat INXS! Looking forward to see the pictures of the X-mas babies

Mine are having a threesome at the moment

I've sat and watched my best female with the Alpha male in the cave for a day or so now, and suddenly an hour ago I see another female getting in there as well! And none of them have come out! Cheeky things aren't they... where's the moral I say! (then again never mind that as long as they get it right huh

)

It's cam nr2 where this is happening, in LyreTails cave here: http://public.qtopia.no/Catfish/Zebcam1.asp

A very sulking beta male in the top cave, poor thing... He had his chanse, but spoiled it all a couple of months ago...

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:05 pm

Caesars wrote: Also, though both father and mother were regular BNs some of the fry are albinos (I'd say about 40% or thereabouts). I was wondering if anybody else has noticed anything similar???

This is a common thing. If you cross two albinos you'd expect to see (or it's not uncommon to see) about half regularily colored. if one of your regular colored came from a spawn where one of the parents, for instance, were albinos then you'd expect a result like this

Caesars · Post by **Caesars** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:10 pm

McEve to be honest I don't know who is doing what with whom anymore when it comes to BNs. But assuming regular couples (as with the Queen Abbys etc) I have not had albinos from this father before (except of course if he "cheated"

). I did suspect that the guy went with my younger albino female - she is a long fin and if that is her it is her first spawn. Would that explain the high death rate of the fry?

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 8:48 pm

Hi Caesars,

I don't know

I have no experience with BN and mortality rate myself. Hopefully somebody else can answer this question! I don't see why you should experience higher mortality rate with a normal/albino cross, and don't see any reason why you should, but somebody else might know.

I've heard of crosses between Hypancistrus species without higher mortailty rate than normal, that's why I don't see why the cross itself should cause this.

I assume you have checked the water parameters so forth?

INXS · Post by **INXS** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:10 pm

Thanks guys.

The alpha male has lost his spawn - again.
The second one has a bunch of wigglers in with him though

There was another prespawn going on yesterday as a male had a female in another cave and they were all wrapped around each other - I think I disturbed them though.

On a sad note, I lost one of my two surviving babies from July - it was about 1"+ and I don't have any idea what went wrong.

I did test for nitrates though (a tip from Janne on PC) they were extremly high - almost 100 and he mentioned that high nitrates may contribute to loss of eggs and fry. Caesar - that may be a clue for you too?

I have been doing 2 daily waterchanges for the last 3 days , only about 20% but I have brought the nitrates down to around 20 and going down.

I did notice the other baby was swimming really erratically today after the waterchange and I noticed the same yesterday - it has me worried but I did remember seeing the zebras as well as other plecos do the same after large cold water changes.

Any ideas on the erratic swimming?

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:19 pm

Hi INXS,

what's the PH in your tap water compared to the water in the tank? I did a 70% cold water change in both my tanks only days ago, and didn't notice any erratic swimming, as I haven't on earlier occations either.

INXS · Post by **INXS** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:25 pm

Well, I just happened to check the PH yesterday as I suspected that - both were around 7.8

The fish is wiggling very fast from side to side and swimming up and down in the water column almost shaking in circles.

After a bit he settles down and is OK and then he does it again. I did notice the breathing was pretty heavy.

McEve · Post by **McEve** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:32 pm

Sounds like what I saw my Angel frys doing after a feed of live BBS!

Obiously that's not the case with your babies though... Do they settle down after a while, or do they continue doing it? It sounds like they might have experienced some kind of shock.... How cold are the water you use when changing it?

INXS · Post by **INXS** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:45 pm

I'm feeding the same thing I used to.
There is only one baby , 1"+, so it's not even a baby.
Yes , it does seem to settle down but I'm still worried.

I have been doing much larger waterchanges with colder water in months past with no problems although once or twice I did do a really cold change and noticed the same erratic swimming in adults but it went away as soon as the water warmed a little.

I'm just worried since I lost the other fry a few days back.

Caesars · Post by **Caesars** » Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:51 pm

INXS wrote: On a sad note, I lost one of my two surviving babies from July - it was about 1"+ and I don't have any idea what went wrong.

I did test for nitrates though (a tip from Janne on PC) they were extremly high - almost 100 and he mentioned that high nitrates may contribute to loss of eggs and fry. Caesar - that may be a clue for you too?

Sorry about your loss INXS

As for the water, it couldn't be better. Ammonia and Nitrate are 0, Nitrate is 5ppm (that is in the fry tank), pH 6,8, temp 27,8C, both hardnesses really low. Same as always. Which is why I don't understand this. Dad went with cave and fry in fry tank and stayed there until all fry were out - he started going out himself to eat so I moved him back with his harem. I did notice however this bunch of fry were considerably smaller than any previous spawn I had ... so pass on this one, I can only speculate as it has never happened to me before. I thought maybe somebody has had some experience and could offer an explanation.