My juvenile Zebs from Andrew Coxon

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PaulH196
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My juvenile Zebs from Andrew Coxon

Post by PaulH196 »

I had the pleasure of meeting Andrew Coxon today and seeing his various tanks and breeding set ups. Amazingly he only lives about 10 minutes drive away from me.

The spawn sizes that he is acheiving with his zebra's are remarkable and there were two separate spawns in breeding traps whilst I was there, one batch still with their yolk sacs just about used up, the others a month or so older.

I purchased 4 young zebra's from Andy and they are in excellent health, I have attached some photo's of them for all to see. They have settled into their new home now and you can be certain that they will receive the best possible care with me. I look forward to showing their progress with photo's in months to come.

Thanks again Andy for showing me around and best of luck with breeding your other L No's. and also with the PFK competition too.

PaulH
Regards

PaulH
dave
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Hi

Post by dave »

There was a post recently as to whether we should say things nicely or just come out with it

Take pic 1, and remember camera angles can be deceptive, this is the nice bit.

Lower left a snub nose, lower right a snub nose, Zeb at top of pic possible snub nose ( camera angle ). The Zeb partially obscured by the top Zeb looks OK

Take care

Dave
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Post by PaulH196 »

Dave,

Many thanks for your observations, I am sure that you have a lot more experience with Zebra's than me as these are my first.

Hopefully it is actually the camera angle that is giving the impression of "snub noses".

In the third picture which is a better photo, would you say that this Zebra looks "snub nose"? With my limited experience it looks normal to me, this Zebra is the one that appears at lower left in the first photo.

I would very much appreciate your comments, and the comments of any other experienced members too.

Regards

Paul
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PaulH
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andrewcoxon
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Post by andrewcoxon »

well i dont know what to say about your reply dave apart from i totally disagree....! obviously iv seen these fish in the flesh and i know they are not snub nosed so the only thing i can put it down to is the angle of the photo (as mentioned by you) but on looking at the photo non of the fish look even slightly snub nosed... are you looking at a different photo?

can some other people plz chip in here also as i would like your opinions...
My Pleco's:
4 x L46
5 x L174
5 x L134
5 x L287
5 x L257
2 x L236
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andrewcoxon
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Post by andrewcoxon »

pictures of an "actual" snub nose fry

Image

Image
My Pleco's:
4 x L46
5 x L174
5 x L134
5 x L287
5 x L257
2 x L236
Zebrapl3co
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Post by Zebrapl3co »

andrewcoxon wrote:pictures of an "actual" snub nose fry

Image

Image
The first one is definately a snub nose, but the second one is questionable.
Their nose will grow abit back to normal as they grow older you know. Even the wild caught ones, we used to mis-ID semi-snub nose as WC female remember? Round nose = female?

As for the orginal photos, I doubt that any of them are snub nose as camera angles plays with your eyes. They might not have long nose, but that doesn't mean they are snubnose.

And while we're on this topic, how come nobody complains about their zebra having long nose?

On a sad note though, I do wish you the best of luck and hope that you have very good experience raising pleco fry. If they live past 6 months, you are in good shape, but in cases like these ... well, don't want to start anything, but I wouldn't sell 1 month old fry....
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andrewcoxon
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Post by andrewcoxon »

1 month old fry.....?! :shock: these fish are 5-6 months old.....
My Pleco's:
4 x L46
5 x L174
5 x L134
5 x L287
5 x L257
2 x L236
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Jamie24
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Post by Jamie24 »

In my opinion they are not snub nosed at all, just young, they definatly are older than a month, and to me look older than 6 months old even.
One possibly two of them even look like they could be female, but this would be impossible to tell as they are far to young yet...

Nice healthy looking fish, and think that dave was a lille out of order criticising.

Good luck with the young ones PaulH196

J 8)
L046 x 16 + Fry
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Hi again

Post by dave »

So I'm out of order criticising OK.

IMO the pectoral fins of lower right fish and lower left fish are deformed in pic1.

If say Rob, McEve, Plastic Mac, TTA, Barbie, John, Miet ( Think you know who I mean ) came back and said I was incorrect in my viewpoint, or Cup or yan Fulliquet, or Sojapat from other forums, then I'd stand corrected.

If being out of order means that it is attempting to ensure that sub standard fish don't appear on the open market then I'll live with it.

As for the pics of snub noses that have been shown, these are the most extreme, there are varying degrees.

Take care

Dave
PaulH196
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Post by PaulH196 »

Andrew,

Thank you for joining the thread, obviously you know your youngsters better than anyone and have seen these Zebra's most days for the last 6 months or so.

I will watch these youngsters develop over the coming months/years with great interest.

Also, the photo's you posted of the affected Zebra's give a good idea of how severe the particular condition can get, but obviously with all things in nature they show themselves in varying degrees.

Regards

Paul
Last edited by PaulH196 on Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Regards

PaulH
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Post by PaulH196 »

Zebrapl3co,

Thank you for your comments, as you say, there are varying degrees of short/long nosed Zebra's within the captive population and no doubt in the wild too.

I am not sure where you got the idea that my Zebra's were only 1 month old, they are about 6 months old and about 1.5 inches in length.

In my 1st post I did point out that Andrew had babies from two broods in separate areas, one still with yolk sacs, one about a month older, maybe you thought my juveniles were from this tank. Andrew has lots of other young Zebra's too that I did not mention at various stages all the way up to the ones the same age as the ones I purchased.

Regards

Paul
Regards

PaulH
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Post by PaulH196 »

Jamie 24,

Thanks for your comments, I value everyones thoughts on my first ever Zebra's. You are correct, they are way over 1 month in age, although like you I am sure that at that age their sex could not be determined.

My intention in time, is to get some youngsters from other breeding stock to diversify the gene pool as much as possible. That way, in a few years time if I am successful in getting them to breed there is less chance of related fish breeding with each other and less chance of recessive/less desirable traits being "fixed" in future youngsters.

Regards

Paul
Regards

PaulH
PaulH196
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Post by PaulH196 »

Dave,

I don't think that you are out of order on any of the points you have made. You have looked at the information in front of you, and made comments based upon that, I am grateful that you have taken the time to do so.

Maybe with further photographs from differing angles your viewpoint would be different, only time will tell with this. I will try to get some better photo's over the coming weeks, although at this point in time I would like to disturb them as little as possible.

Everyones opinions are valid, no matter how experienced or otherwise that they are. The more 1st hand experience you get the more you are likely to be able to draw on that and be able to help others. My knowledge relating to Zebra's is limited to my research over the last few years, this site and the many experiences of it's members has done wonders in this respect. My knowledge with other fish is also gained from research, but also from over 30 years of personal experience with many types of coldwater, tropical and marine species.

Best wishes

Paul
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PaulH
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Re: Hi again

Post by andrewcoxon »

dave wrote:So I'm out of order criticising OK.

IMO the pectoral fins of lower right fish and lower left fish are deformed in pic1.

If say Rob, McEve, Plastic Mac, TTA, Barbie, John, Miet ( Think you know who I mean ) came back and said I was incorrect in my viewpoint, or Cup or yan Fulliquet, or Sojapat from other forums, then I'd stand corrected.

If being out of order means that it is attempting to ensure that sub standard fish don't appear on the open market then I'll live with it.

As for the pics of snub noses that have been shown, these are the most extreme, there are varying degrees.

Take care

Dave
dave critisizing is all you ever seem to do. iv lost count of how many times you have said your quitting the forum only to come out the wood work whenever you spot an oppourtunity to cause a bit of a controversy....

first of all they we're snub noses and now all of a sudden they have deformed fins.....! have you even ever seen a zebra??? or zebra fry? or do you just use this forum to pretend your some kind of expert and boost your own sad little ego..?

plz can some of the members like barbie, john, mceve give their opinions....
My Pleco's:
4 x L46
5 x L174
5 x L134
5 x L287
5 x L257
2 x L236
dave
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Hi again

Post by dave »

A couple of points.

As to whether I have seen a baby Zebra?

Members of this site who have taken young fish from me include: Alistair, Discusbabe, Zeberdy and Tom Sharland (Tom can also confirm that I have donated fish to Chester Zoo as he drove me there for one of the donations).

Plecofanatic members who have taken my young fish include B Glover, Windy58 and Ruggy.

There are others who would prefer not to be named or who are not members of either site. All except for the fish in the Zoo were on a collect only basis.

Hope this answers your question Andrew.

On commenting on the pics, and the posting I presume was to invite comments (Camera Angles to be taken into account ) I stated my opinion which I stand by.

I look forward to the comments of other members.

Take care

Dave
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