And
I am afraid that i may have all males, which is not good for breeding, if my biology is up to speed.
Please could you sex these- Thanks
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Tristan
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Please could you sex these- Thanks
Hi guys, i have just taken the poor beasts out of the tank in the hope that you can ID them. I am hopeless at it, they all look the same
And
I am afraid that i may have all males, which is not good for breeding, if my biology is up to speed.
And
I am afraid that i may have all males, which is not good for breeding, if my biology is up to speed.
L046, L033, L117, L200, L027, L014, Discus, & malawis
Lotsa fish!
I think I see a female or two in the mix;)
I can't really tell to be honest but I've heard that the pectoral fins are rounder in females and straighter in males. There's alos a rumor that males generally have thicker black stripes, but I thik that's more to do with maturity and age than anything else.
I just plain cannot wait to get my hands on more of these little buggers.
I think I see a female or two in the mix;)
I can't really tell to be honest but I've heard that the pectoral fins are rounder in females and straighter in males. There's alos a rumor that males generally have thicker black stripes, but I thik that's more to do with maturity and age than anything else.
I just plain cannot wait to get my hands on more of these little buggers.
My guesses are,
6/7 o'clock the dominant male
3 o'clock a young female
7/8 o'clock could be a female
hmm... and I think that's all I'm going to venture a guess on
9 and 12 o'clock is too young
The others need to have their picture taken closer up before I can venture a guess on them, and also with their fins extended.
The only one I'm sure about is the dominant male really... sorry I'm not being more helpful!
Don't ever go by the shape or forms of the stripes, it will tell nothing about the genders, that's one thing I'm 100% sure about
6/7 o'clock the dominant male
3 o'clock a young female
7/8 o'clock could be a female
hmm... and I think that's all I'm going to venture a guess on
9 and 12 o'clock is too young
The others need to have their picture taken closer up before I can venture a guess on them, and also with their fins extended.
The only one I'm sure about is the dominant male really... sorry I'm not being more helpful!
Don't ever go by the shape or forms of the stripes, it will tell nothing about the genders, that's one thing I'm 100% sure about
Definitely yank them out of the tank again and get pics of them each with their fins out, and not layered on top of each other. The females definitely have more curve, and the males are straighter. I have both females and males that have more black on them, so that isn't necessarily a good indicator either.
On one of the other boards, I read that the males anal fins are also larger in proportion to their other fins, and it does seem to be holding true in comparisons in mine. The males heads also look longer from the point where their pectoral fins attach across the body than a females will. It's just hard to tell that when their fins are curled in against their body.
I know, I know, we're just too dang picky
. Give them caves of the right dimensions. The ones that use them are usually male too.
Barbie
On one of the other boards, I read that the males anal fins are also larger in proportion to their other fins, and it does seem to be holding true in comparisons in mine. The males heads also look longer from the point where their pectoral fins attach across the body than a females will. It's just hard to tell that when their fins are curled in against their body.
I know, I know, we're just too dang picky
. Give them caves of the right dimensions. The ones that use them are usually male too.Barbie
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I have one that's about 2 inches SL that uses a cave, yes. The two that I have that were smaller than that haven't been, but then again, they're in a tank where they wouldn't necessarily get to. I'll have to try some smaller caves and see!
Barbie
Barbie
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I wrote a short species profile for another forum, and thought I could paste the part I wrote about sexing them here. I hope it helps....
Sexing
It's not easy to determine the gender of the Zebra, but it can be done. The fish does need to be sexually mature before it can be identified with some certainty though, and it's important not to look at only one sign, as individual differences can have you easily fooled. A female can display one characteristic typical for a male, and vice versa, but can be a dead giveaway based on another characteristic.
Body shape:
Generally the female wil have a shorter, stouter, body shape - seen from above - than a male. But body shape will depend on how well fed the individual is, and also, the male will occationally display the short and stout body due to the fat reserve he build up when ready to spawn. Body shape is by itself not a sure sign in other words.
Nr1 shows the "normal" body shape of a male. Nr2 shows the "normal" body shape of a female. Nr3 shows a corpulent male. You can see that body shape can not be trusted by itself to identify the gender, but might give a pointer, together with the other characteristics described here.
Head shape
When seen from above, the male has a broader head than the female. The female can also look pinched just where the gills are. This is due to the interopercular odontodes not being as well developed as that of the male, which brings us over to the next sign;
Odontodal growth
Both females and males will have odontodal growth ("hair" or "spikes"), mainly on their pectoral fin, and between the gills. If seen from above, the female very rarely has interopercular growth that extend past where the pectoral fin begins.
This is a picture of a particularly hairy lady:
But when seen from above it's obious that the interopercular odontodes are a lot shorter than those of the male.
The female is to the left, and is the same fish shown as hairy lady above.
Fins
The female has a slightly more crescent shaped pectoral fin than the male. Some people can take one look at the pectoral fin and immidiately know if it's a male or female. I have never been able to do so, and prefer to look at the pelvic fin. The male has a larger pelvic fin than the female. This is also the one sign that has an explanation based on the fish's behaviour. The male will use his pelvic fins to keep the cave clean, and to "fan" the eggs when guarding them. It seem to me a natural consequence that his pelvice fin is larger than the females, as he actually use them for something important. Opinions differ on this though. The first ray of the pectoral fin is also thicker on the male than that of a female.
Female to the left
All the pictures shown here is of a dominant male and a female. There's usually no problem identifying a dominant male, the problem is telling a female and a subdominant male apart, as the characteristics aren't as developed in a subdominant male. He can therefor easily be mistaken for a female. But by using a combination of the characteristics described here it is still possible to tell the genders apart, in most cases, and experience makes the guessing more accurate! I say guessing, because unfortunately there is still en element of guessing involved, that is until the fish is identified through spawning, then one knows for sure
Feel free to correct me if you disagree though
(my server just collapsed, the pictures will be up in a couple of hours)
Sexing
It's not easy to determine the gender of the Zebra, but it can be done. The fish does need to be sexually mature before it can be identified with some certainty though, and it's important not to look at only one sign, as individual differences can have you easily fooled. A female can display one characteristic typical for a male, and vice versa, but can be a dead giveaway based on another characteristic.
Body shape:
Generally the female wil have a shorter, stouter, body shape - seen from above - than a male. But body shape will depend on how well fed the individual is, and also, the male will occationally display the short and stout body due to the fat reserve he build up when ready to spawn. Body shape is by itself not a sure sign in other words.
Nr1 shows the "normal" body shape of a male. Nr2 shows the "normal" body shape of a female. Nr3 shows a corpulent male. You can see that body shape can not be trusted by itself to identify the gender, but might give a pointer, together with the other characteristics described here.
Head shape
When seen from above, the male has a broader head than the female. The female can also look pinched just where the gills are. This is due to the interopercular odontodes not being as well developed as that of the male, which brings us over to the next sign;
Odontodal growth
Both females and males will have odontodal growth ("hair" or "spikes"), mainly on their pectoral fin, and between the gills. If seen from above, the female very rarely has interopercular growth that extend past where the pectoral fin begins.
This is a picture of a particularly hairy lady:
But when seen from above it's obious that the interopercular odontodes are a lot shorter than those of the male.
The female is to the left, and is the same fish shown as hairy lady above.
Fins
The female has a slightly more crescent shaped pectoral fin than the male. Some people can take one look at the pectoral fin and immidiately know if it's a male or female. I have never been able to do so, and prefer to look at the pelvic fin. The male has a larger pelvic fin than the female. This is also the one sign that has an explanation based on the fish's behaviour. The male will use his pelvic fins to keep the cave clean, and to "fan" the eggs when guarding them. It seem to me a natural consequence that his pelvice fin is larger than the females, as he actually use them for something important. Opinions differ on this though. The first ray of the pectoral fin is also thicker on the male than that of a female.
Female to the left
All the pictures shown here is of a dominant male and a female. There's usually no problem identifying a dominant male, the problem is telling a female and a subdominant male apart, as the characteristics aren't as developed in a subdominant male. He can therefor easily be mistaken for a female. But by using a combination of the characteristics described here it is still possible to tell the genders apart, in most cases, and experience makes the guessing more accurate! I say guessing, because unfortunately there is still en element of guessing involved, that is until the fish is identified through spawning, then one knows for sure
Feel free to correct me if you disagree though
(my server just collapsed, the pictures will be up in a couple of hours)
Last edited by McEve on Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Tristan
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OK barbie, i'll get them out again soon, I feel sorry for them though the charge about all stressed, i don't like doing that, but i will get round to it soon. Thanks for your help guys, I feel slightly better thinking that there maybe a female or two in there all be it a young one.
Mc Eve, thanks for the info - very interesting & useful.
Watch this space for photos in the future.
Tristan
Mc Eve, thanks for the info - very interesting & useful.
Watch this space for photos in the future.
Tristan
L046, L033, L117, L200, L027, L014, Discus, & malawis
Tristan my first spawn came within a week or two of when I got pissed off and pulled them ALL out of my tanks and took a couple hours worth of photos, believe it or not. After almost 9 months of rainy seasons and babying them, when I gave up and put them in a larger tank, decided I didn't have time to worry about it with the wedding and what not going in, THEN they spawned! I promise it won't put them off spawning, in itself at least . I need to get all those pictures back online. I'll add that onto my list of things I need to stop putting off .
Barbie
. I need to get all those pictures back online. I'll add that onto my list of things I need to stop putting off .Barbie
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Hi Tristan,
No excuses but I personally find them easier to sex from profile shots or close up arial shots, I'll give it my best shot anyway. I'm pretty certain that the large fish in the bottom left hand corner of the top picture is male. The second large fish in the bottom right hand corner of the same picture looks like it could possibly be female. I honestly can't tell either way on the others without more pictures, preferably close up shots if you can. I might be completely wrong but didn't you have 7 zebras?
Personally I wouldn't worry too much about catching your zebras so long as you don't do it regularly. You can give them a quick check to see that they are alright, because they are shy I find that problems can sometimes go unnoticed for too long.
Nice looking lot by the way.
No excuses but I personally find them easier to sex from profile shots or close up arial shots, I'll give it my best shot anyway. I'm pretty certain that the large fish in the bottom left hand corner of the top picture is male. The second large fish in the bottom right hand corner of the same picture looks like it could possibly be female. I honestly can't tell either way on the others without more pictures, preferably close up shots if you can. I might be completely wrong but didn't you have 7 zebras?
Personally I wouldn't worry too much about catching your zebras so long as you don't do it regularly. You can give them a quick check to see that they are alright, because they are shy I find that problems can sometimes go unnoticed for too long.
Nice looking lot by the way.
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Tristan
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Hi Adam,
yes I do have seven but the other one is small as well and very elusive. People on other posts have said that it is nearly impossible to tell the sex of a little'n. So i left it in the tank.
Are you guys sure it's ok to keep taking these critters out of the tank, maybe i am paranoid but are they fairly hardy. ...but i don't want to lose any by pestering them too much.
Cheers
Tristan.
yes I do have seven but the other one is small as well and very elusive. People on other posts have said that it is nearly impossible to tell the sex of a little'n. So i left it in the tank.
Are you guys sure it's ok to keep taking these critters out of the tank, maybe i am paranoid but are they fairly hardy. ...but i don't want to lose any by pestering them too much.
Cheers
Tristan.
L046, L033, L117, L200, L027, L014, Discus, & malawis
Hi Tristan,
Sorry I havent replied before but didnt think it worth "guessing".As a lot of others have mentioned , close ups of each fish would be so much easier for those who are willing to sex them.
In the very near future,I will be phographing each of my Zebras to produce a photographic "log" and will have to do the same as you ie remove each one into a container for a few minutes, while being photographed.
Regarding hardiness, I believe that they are pretty hardy and that being carefully netted and placed in a photographic container for 5 min should not affect them at all. Just remember to use the tank water !!!!!!!
In fact about 3 to 4 weeks ago, I transfered 2 breeding set ups of zebras into buckets for 3 hours, (one of these contained the male and female in their cave, that a week later spawned for me . I moved them in their cave and they didnt even leave from fright.), while I moved their tanks and rack , to make room for the 2 x 4 ft tanks and racks that I had just bought for my other plecos and for some younger zebras that I have, to grow on.
Regards,
Des.
Sorry I havent replied before but didnt think it worth "guessing".As a lot of others have mentioned , close ups of each fish would be so much easier for those who are willing to sex them.
In the very near future,I will be phographing each of my Zebras to produce a photographic "log" and will have to do the same as you ie remove each one into a container for a few minutes, while being photographed.
Regarding hardiness, I believe that they are pretty hardy and that being carefully netted and placed in a photographic container for 5 min should not affect them at all. Just remember to use the tank water !!!!!!!
In fact about 3 to 4 weeks ago, I transfered 2 breeding set ups of zebras into buckets for 3 hours, (one of these contained the male and female in their cave, that a week later spawned for me . I moved them in their cave and they didnt even leave from fright.), while I moved their tanks and rack , to make room for the 2 x 4 ft tanks and racks that I had just bought for my other plecos and for some younger zebras that I have, to grow on.
Regards,
Des.
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Tristan
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- Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2004 11:49 pm
- Location: Hampshire England
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Cheers Des,
The thing that got me going with regard to their hardyness is that I have had some bad experiences with discus sulking for several days after being moved about, even though it was only for a few minutes. I'll get my own photographic log going in the near future.
The thing that got me going with regard to their hardyness is that I have had some bad experiences with discus sulking for several days after being moved about, even though it was only for a few minutes. I'll get my own photographic log going in the near future.
L046, L033, L117, L200, L027, L014, Discus, & malawis
Tristan,
The next time you take them out try flipping them over or hold them down with the fish net in front of the tank and see if you can vent them just look for different shapes of there genital papila, if you see two that looks very different you are gauranteed to have both sexes maybe this picture will help:
If this is just too small email me I can send you the larger image
the fish above are proven breeders, when I get more time I can take more photographs of the others, sometimes the angle of the shot makes a big difference.
The next time you take them out try flipping them over or hold them down with the fish net in front of the tank and see if you can vent them just look for different shapes of there genital papila, if you see two that looks very different you are gauranteed to have both sexes maybe this picture will help:
If this is just too small email me I can send you the larger image
the fish above are proven breeders, when I get more time I can take more photographs of the others, sometimes the angle of the shot makes a big difference.
