Aisan breeding program

If it's about fish in general, or it's a little bit random, then this is the place to post it.
User avatar
jerry58
Obsessed!!
Posts: 219
Joined: Wed May 28, 2008 7:10 pm
Location: kent uk

Post by jerry58 » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:39 pm

Hi sorry back again. :roll:

Think I have my answer on other site but thanks for reading anyway,shame its not on here but if you are interested about it here is the ongoing thread......

http://www.planetcatfish.com/forum/view ... =2&t=27608

Thanks Jerry
Caution is a most valuable asset in fish keeping, especially if you are the fish.

User avatar
jediknight
Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:57 pm
Location: Iquitos - Peru
Contact:

Re: Aisan breeding program

Post by jediknight » Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:13 pm

I would say, due to fish (zebra) biology, perhaps not so massive production but very good production in the short future for sure.

don´t think only in garage breeding... those guys do it all in big size... from some importers money is not limitant and they play their cards very well, what for some people maybe is not profitable, Asians make the "miracle" to make it...!!!!!!

so is not surprise.

Regards

:loldude:

User avatar
TwoTankAmin
Moderator
Posts: 1228
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:16 am
Location: Westchester Co., NY

Re: Aisan breeding program

Post by TwoTankAmin » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:28 pm

It has been done, the fish hit the USA a few months ago. I know a breeder/store owner who went to see them and check them out. The prices stores were being asked to pay were substantially higher- ie $50/fish than most of the breeders I know charge, that includes me. Then the store would have to markup the price.

As I posted in this thread way back when it was started, it is not economically viable to breed zebras commercially with the goal of selling lots of them for a cheap price.
What makes the common person uncommon is common sense.

AndyAps.com
Obsessed!!
Posts: 163
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:57 am
Location: Sheffield UK
Contact:

Re: Aisan breeding program

Post by AndyAps.com » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:56 pm

I've spoke to a local importer today who has told me of TB zebra's starting to appear on exporter lists and say's theirs definitely rumours of Zebra pleco's flooding the market. What we have to remember is the commercial breeders use hormones etc so its not a matter of 'IF" they can trigger breeding, its done simply by injecting the fish. My suspicion lies with the part about 'Flooding the market' i mean how many pairs of L046 would they need to be able to produce enough fry to 'flood' the market?? is it actually realistic??
and what effect is it going to have on prices of Zebra Plecos as we know them?? is the price of my fish that i paid thousands for about to crash to a few hundred because of readily available commercial bred plecs?? OR is the price going to be stable or even increase due to 'wild' proper, mature fish being even rarer because all that will be available is commercial bred poor quality plecs??

Andy
success is a journey full of unbelievable experiance NOT a destination with an unbelievable experiance.

User avatar
TwoTankAmin
Moderator
Posts: 1228
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:16 am
Location: Westchester Co., NY

Re: Aisan breeding program

Post by TwoTankAmin » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:41 pm

The problem is not so much with being able to get them spawn, especially using hormones. the issue is that you get small spawns and not all eggs are viable. Then if you are hormoning them you have all the issues that goes along with that.

When I spawn my zebras I do so in my home in my fish tanks. It cost me nothing extra to get a tank up and running besides the actual equipment I use. A breeding facility must set up a facility with all the costs associated with it. There are employees, utility bills, fish food and meds etc. etc. that is on top of the cost of the fish and tank stuff.

I made money breeding and selling zebras, but it was pocket money which paid for my hobby. To make a living from it is another story entirely. If you want to breed fish to make a living you need to breed fish that have bigger spawns more readily and more often and who's offspring grow faster.

Last fall I was told wholesalers were offering the Asian zebras to stores at $175 each. The last zebras I sold in Oct. 2010 brought in $125 each at 1.5 inches. For the market to be flooded, the wholesale price needs to drop to about $50-$60 not the current $175 +/-. The normal fish store needs to be able to markup fish 200%-300% to make it economically viable to stock them.

One last note. Asian breeders get paid in their currency in the end. The dollar has dropped against many currencies which means more dollars are needed to bring the same amount to the seller. Moreover, when the dollar is weak against the yen or the Deutschmark, the fish get sold there not here.
What makes the common person uncommon is common sense.

User avatar
John
Moderator
Posts: 1611
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:58 pm
Location: Hellevoetsluis / Holland
Contact:

Re: Aisan breeding program

Post by John » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:16 am

Rumours have been around for several years now, and i am still waiting for the huge amount of zebbies for a cheap price :mrgreen:
Greetings,
John
[img]http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x276/hypancistrus-zebra/half.gif[/img]

User avatar
Jools
Site Admin
Posts: 161
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:57 pm
Location: Bathgate, Scotland, UK

Re: Aisan breeding program

Post by Jools » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:37 pm

Some of my thoughts about this.

a) If buying wc zebras is ethically wrong (if not illegal depending on your location) then wouldn't offering lots of tankbred fish that are actually wild be a good way to make money no questions asked? (I don't condone this, I just use it as an example to explain a large influx of TB fishes into the global market).

b) The "business model doesn't work" thing that we've talked about in this thread is right, except, if you go out with the traditional supply chain. If the breeder can get TB zebras to the end consumer at the going retail price then it's viable. It's still a vineyard business model, but 12-15 years investment and you're there.

Jools

User avatar
TwoTankAmin
Moderator
Posts: 1228
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:16 am
Location: Westchester Co., NY

Re: Aisan breeding program

Post by TwoTankAmin » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:39 am

The problem with selling illegally captured wild zebras as tank raised is one of size. A lot if "illegally" exported zebras hit the markets starting about 2 years ago if memory serves me. However, they were not small enough to have been recently tank raised. Most breeders are selling their offspring at 1.25 - 1.5 inches. This is not what has been coming in from the wild. I have seen 2, 2.5 and even 3 inchers but not babies.

As I posted earlier the tank raised Asian zebras that were checked out were about 1.5 inches and being sold as Asian bred for $175 each to the wholesaler.

I have purchased wild zebras mostly pre and a few post ban. None were ever less than 1.75+ inch and most were much larger and older. I have never seen wild zebra fry ( ie 1.25-1.5inch) offered for sale (pre or post ban). Has anybody else? My bet is it is a lot more difficult catching tiny wild zebras than it is catching the bigger ones?
What makes the common person uncommon is common sense.

Fern
Obsessed!!
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 10:32 pm
Location: Ft Myers FL

Re: Aisan breeding program

Post by Fern » Thu Jun 16, 2011 10:18 pm

My 2 wilds were 2" and 2.5" when i got them about 2 years ago

tomaasbark
Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:58 am

Re: Aisan breeding program

Post by tomaasbark » Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:02 am

Hi
I'm probably sticking me neck out here but IMO there most likely to be someone TRYING to breed zebras in large amounts in the world somewhere ,but from that site and from those pics show me no evidence of breeding any fish in any way(no fish in line of tanks for a start)just empty.
Its one thing to say they are BREEDING LARGE AMOUNTS and a long long long way from saying SUCCESSFULLY BREEDING LARGE AMOUNTS which in my eyes is something completely different.
Until anybody comes up with some hard evidence of this going on I WILL treat it as a rumor nothing more nothing less.

All this seems to be doing is generating them more hits on the site.

Mr. Johnson
Groupie
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:21 am

Re: Aisan breeding program

Post by Mr. Johnson » Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:59 am

http://2011.l-wels-tage.de/en/?referent ... ahardja-en

They are currently at 200 fry/month.

User avatar
TwoTankAmin
Moderator
Posts: 1228
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:16 am
Location: Westchester Co., NY

Re: Aisan breeding program

Post by TwoTankAmin » Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:39 pm

I do not see what the benefit of such cross breeding would be - at least economically. Spend some time on any catfish or pleco site and you will read countless ID threads where there are multiple replies each giving a different ID. And this is very often regarding the various Hypans.

But the one Hypan which is never misidentified is the zebra. There is never any doubt about what is or isn't a zebra. What do you think cross breeds would look like? Who would buy one?

A couple of years back I acquired 173bs from Aquarium Glaser. These fish are described as offspring of 173s that do not look like the parents but which should produce some number of normal looking 173s when they spawn. I have no reason to doubt what AG claims, but when I posted pictures of the fish on a major catfish site I was told the fish were all sorts of Hypans besides 173s. Nobody in that thread would have been willing to buy those fish for close to what I paid. Crossbreeds with zebras that don't look like zebras would be even worse. So what would be the point?

As for the Asian breeding programs. Its a few years later, where are all the cheap zebras? Have you seen any?
What makes the common person uncommon is common sense.

Mr. Johnson
Groupie
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:21 am

Re: Aisan breeding program

Post by Mr. Johnson » Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:37 pm

I agree re: breeding programs.

I think they been at it for a while and still can't bring the prices down. There also comes a price point that they are not willing to go under b/c it will undercut their profits.

Additionally, it appears that the dam construction is happening as we speak. This factor will push prices up. Combine this factor with the breeding program prices may stay where they are.

Post Reply